Manpower and size of the Luftwaffe September 1 1939

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Luftwaffe air units and general discussions on the Luftwaffe.
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General91
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Manpower and size of the Luftwaffe September 1 1939

#1

Post by General91 » 07 Jul 2016, 19:16

Hello everyone,

I was wondering if someone could provide me with the manpower and size of the Luftwaffe on September 1 1939? On a couple different website I see the Luftwaffe had "400,000+" personnel, and 3960 aircraft. I got these numbers from:

http://www.feldgrau.com/stats.html
http://ww2-weapons.com/luftwaffe-orders ... er-2-1939/

Wikipedia says that in the summer of 1939 the Luftwaffe had 4200 aircraft and 373,000 personnel, consisting of 208k for aircrew, 58k for signals, and 107k for Flak. But I don't trust these numbers.

Does anyone else have different/better numbers? Plus, does anyone have a breakdown of the Luftwaffe's exact or approximate numbers of: pilots, support staff/mechanics, Flak arm, Fallschirmjager, etc, on Sept 1 1939?

Thank you in advance

Art
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Re: Manpower and size of the Luftwaffe September 1 1939

#2

Post by Art » 07 Jul 2016, 20:58

According to "Germany and the Second World War" vol. V-1
early summer 1939 (before mobilization) - 373 000 men total including 208 000 in air troops, 107 000 anti-aircraft artillery, 58 000 - signal troops
late autumn 1939 - 880 000 including 366 000 air troops, 258 000 anti-aircraft artillery, 138 000 air signal troops, 118 000 - construction units.


General91
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Re: Manpower and size of the Luftwaffe September 1 1939

#3

Post by General91 » 07 Jul 2016, 22:37

Art wrote:According to "Germany and the Second World War" vol. V-1
early summer 1939 (before mobilization) - 373 000 men total including 208 000 in air troops, 107 000 anti-aircraft artillery, 58 000 - signal troops
late autumn 1939 - 880 000 including 366 000 air troops, 258 000 anti-aircraft artillery, 138 000 air signal troops, 118 000 - construction units.
Interesting, thank you. So the Wikipedia entry I saw was correct on the 373,000 personnel number in the summer of 1939 .

As for the late autumn figures, does the 366,000 air troops include the airborne troops? Does that number 366,000 also represent the pilots, mechanics, engineers, and other support personnel to maintain and service the air units? Is the 118,000 men in the construction units only for building and maintaining the airfields I assume? Or did they have other responsibilities as well?

Also those are interesting numbers for the air signal Corps and the flak arm. I'm assuming the air signal Corps includes the men manning the radar systems as well? Did they engage in much signals intelligence, or was that left exclusively to the Abwehr?

Forgive me for asking so many questions, but I am just trying to be thorough. Thank you for your assistance.

Art
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Re: Manpower and size of the Luftwaffe September 1 1939

#4

Post by Art » 09 Jul 2016, 14:23

General91 wrote: As for the late autumn figures, does the 366,000 air troops include the airborne troops? Does that number 366,000 also represent the pilots, mechanics, engineers, and other support personnel to maintain and service the air units?
Definitely. It's said that air crews made up only 5-7% of the air troops.
Signal troops included early warning service. Other question - I just don't know.

General91
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Re: Manpower and size of the Luftwaffe September 1 1939

#5

Post by General91 » 09 Jul 2016, 17:46

Art wrote:
General91 wrote: As for the late autumn figures, does the 366,000 air troops include the airborne troops? Does that number 366,000 also represent the pilots, mechanics, engineers, and other support personnel to maintain and service the air units?
Definitely. It's said that air crews made up only 5-7% of the air troops.
Signal troops included early warning service. Other question - I just don't know.
Incredible Art, thanks for the info. I had no idea air crews only accounted for 5-7% of the air troops. I have read extensively that Luftwaffe serviceability was quite low compared to the other powers, typically 60% or lower. I know part of this is that German industry only spent 4%-5% of production for spare parts, whereas they should have been spending 25%-30% for spare parts. However, was a lack of sufficient numbers of maintenance personnel also to blame?

I can only assume this has been discussed elsewhere here on the forums already, and I will search for them, but I will also ask here anyway to at least start some additional fresh discussion:

Is there any information on comparing USAAF to the Luftwaffe in terms of their efficiency? For example, USAAF didn't have field divisions or airborne divisions, and AAA was the US Army's sphere of influence from what I know, so did a higher focus purely on aerial warfare make USAAF more efficient (purely from the perspective of efficiency, not numbers or technology)?

I have also read the the Luftwaffe field divisions later in the war wasted valuable resources on a "second army" less capable than the Heer, while distracting the Luftwaffe from its primary air mission; but I also know that Luftwaffe airborne was well respected and feared, having had great success until after Crete. Did having these ground troops though distract and detract from the Luftwaffe's air mission priorities? Further, would the Fallschirmjager have been better if it was a part of the Heer? Would it have operated better? Would it have been wielded better?

For the sake of argument, lets assume "personalities" are not a factor. I know Goring would never have given up power, influence, or his units to anyone else. I also know Hitler and Goring were fanatical about having the largest possible number of aircraft on paper, which hurt the reserves of spare parts, thus in turn sharply reducing aircraft serviceability.

Larry D.
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Re: Manpower and size of the Luftwaffe September 1 1939

#6

Post by Larry D. » 10 Jul 2016, 15:05

Of possible interest:

Total Strength of the Luftwaffe – Stand 25.8.1939: 330,000 (of which 12,000 were officers, 11.5% of the total were flying personnel and 28% were Flak personnel.
[Source: NARA WashDC: RG 242/Microcopy T-971 roll 27 frame 561]

Total Strength of the Luftwaffe – Stand 20.5.1941:
Fliegertruppe 526,000
Flak 500,000
Ln.-Truppe 243,000
Lw.-Bautruppen 153,000
Lw.-Landesschützen 36,000
Total: 1,458,000
[Source: NARA WashDC: RG 242/Microcopy T-971 roll 27 frame 1203]

L.

General91
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Re: Manpower and size of the Luftwaffe September 1 1939

#7

Post by General91 » 10 Jul 2016, 19:37

Larry D. wrote:Of possible interest:

Total Strength of the Luftwaffe – Stand 25.8.1939: 330,000 (of which 12,000 were officers, 11.5% of the total were flying personnel and 28% were Flak personnel.
[Source: NARA WashDC: RG 242/Microcopy T-971 roll 27 frame 561]

Total Strength of the Luftwaffe – Stand 20.5.1941:
Fliegertruppe 526,000
Flak 500,000
Ln.-Truppe 243,000
Lw.-Bautruppen 153,000
Lw.-Landesschützen 36,000
Total: 1,458,000
[Source: NARA WashDC: RG 242/Microcopy T-971 roll 27 frame 1203]

L.

Hmm, very interesting Larry D. Thank you for providing that information. And just to make sure I am understanding correctly, that 11.5% of "flying personnel" does or does not include the ground crew maintaining the aircraft?

Further, please forgive my following amateur questions, but I am here to learn so here it goes: what is the Ln.-Truppe, Lw.-Bautruppen, and Lw.-Landesschützen? Are these the Luftwaffe ground troops, and/or Fallschirmjager, and/or military police, and/or something else?

Larry D.
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Re: Manpower and size of the Luftwaffe September 1 1939

#8

Post by Larry D. » 10 Jul 2016, 21:17

General91 -

First, the 11.5% of the 330,000 = 37,950. This would be all of the active duty air crew personnel, but not all of these were assigned to aircraft or flying units on this date.

Ln.-Truppe = Luftnachrichtentruppe = the Air Signals branch.
Lw.-Bautruppen = Air Force construction branch.
Lw.-Landesschützen = Air Force guard personnel for guarding and defending airfields, supply dumps, radar sites and other Luftwaffe installations and assets.

The Fallschirmjäger and Lw.-Feld-Division troops all belonged to the Fliegertruppe branch along with all supply personnel, aircraft servicing and support personnel and mechanics, etc.

L.

General91
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Re: Manpower and size of the Luftwaffe September 1 1939

#9

Post by General91 » 11 Jul 2016, 06:13

Larry D. wrote:General91 -

First, the 11.5% of the 330,000 = 37,950. This would be all of the active duty air crew personnel, but not all of these were assigned to aircraft or flying units on this date.

Ln.-Truppe = Luftnachrichtentruppe = the Air Signals branch.
Lw.-Bautruppen = Air Force construction branch.
Lw.-Landesschützen = Air Force guard personnel for guarding and defending airfields, supply dumps, radar sites and other Luftwaffe installations and assets.

The Fallschirmjäger and Lw.-Feld-Division troops all belonged to the Fliegertruppe branch along with all supply personnel, aircraft servicing and support personnel and mechanics, etc.

L.
This is extremely informative and helpful Larry D, thank you very much for providing such excellent and detailed information. It's much appreciated

-General91

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