Hans Ulrich Rudel

[ravensclaw]

I've always considered this man's story factual (and quite an amazing story). The following is his "alleged" achievements.

2530 sorties (including some 400 in a Folke-Wulf 190).
11 air to air victories (in the FW-109).
519 Tanks Destroyed (30+of these came when he was only flying with one leg).
150 Artillery pieces destroyed.
1000 vehicles destroyed.
70 landing crafts.
Sunk Battleship “Marat”.
2 Cruisers and a Destroyer sunken.

Source: http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/iron_cr ... /rudel.htm

I have also seen similar (same) statistics from other sources.

An old friend of mine recently had a discussion with me on this individual and claimed that his achievements were far less than the above.

The question is simple. Were the achievements of Hans-Ulrich Rudel over rated for propaganda purposes, or is his recorded account factual or, is it still in dispute?

A short answer is fine 8)

Cheers

[Tony Williams]

There are certainly likely to be verification issues, especially over the tanks. Unless someone saw a tank blow up under his gunfire, it is difficult to prove; he could hardly stop and check to see if it was really knocked out!

In the West, Allied OR units determined that Allied fighter-bomber units claimed about ten times as many tanks as they actually destroyed.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum

[Kurt_Steiner]

I'm not an expert in Rudel, but the data mentioned here si pretty similar to the one I've found in several sources. So, there may be some kind of true in it.

Best regards.

[varjag]

I share the feelings of Tony Williams regards Rudels 'claims'. Being a star performer of the Third Reich they would probably have recieved 'the enhancement required'. That said, there's no doubt in my mind that even if we divide his claims by the proverbial factor of 3 for a more realistic approach to the his achievements, Hans Ulrich Rudel was the closest thing to a One Man Airforce the world has ever seen - or for that matter, is ever likely to see. His RK in Gold was well deserved.

[mars]

I can not comments on Rudel's tanks or aircraft kills, but Battleship “Marat” did not sunk, Soviet Navy did loss 2 cruiser in the WWII, but none of them was sunk by a Stuka, and again Soviet Navy did not loss any destroyer at the time and place Rudel claimed.

[Kurt_Steiner]

The modernized Marat, as the first of the class to be refitted, took the lead in showing the flag. On July 25, 1935 she is reported to have rammed and sank the Soviet submarine, Tovarisch. She made a visit to Gydnia, Poland in September of that year. In May and June 1937 Marat represented the Soviet Union for the Spithead Naval Revue on the coronation of King George VI. During the "Winter War" with Finland 1939-1940, Marat shelled Finnish positions at Saarepaa and Koivisto. When the Germans invaded the Soviet Union in June 1941, Marat was moved from Reval, further East to Kronstadt. She was there on September 23, 1941 when she was attacked by Ju-87 Stuka dive bombers. A hit by a 1,000 kg bomb detonated her forward 12 inch magazine, blowing off the bow as far aft as B turret. The forward superstructure and A turret were totally destroyed. Although she remained on the bottom her C and D turrets were still operational. They along with the repaired B turret acted as battery defending Leningrad, during that city’s horrific siege. She was decommissioned in her sunken condition in 1943 and reverted to her former name of Petropavlovsk. After the war she was raised and on November 28, 1950 became the stationary training ship, Volkhov. She was scrapped in 1952. (History of Marat is from Battleships of World War Two by M. J. Whitley and Soviet Warship Development, Volume 1: 1917-1937 by Siegfried Breyer.)

Best regards

[mars]

" A hit by a 1,000 kg bomb detonated her forward 12 inch magazine, blowing off the bow as far aft as B turret. "

My friend, that day, Marrat was hit by 3 not 1 1000 kg bombs dropped by Stuka, Rudel's bomb hit the middle ship not the bow, and you forgot Marrat was already heavily damaged by Luftwaffe's assault on Sep 16 and was unsailed since then, you may downgrad Luftwaffe's efficiency.
And that is the reason I always insist on checking both side's records

http://admiral.centro.ru/memor06.htm

[Kurt_Steiner]

I was just quoting, my friend.

Best regards

[Tony Williams]

I'm not an expert in Rudel, but the data mentioned here si pretty similar to the one I've found in several sources. So, there may be some kind of true in it.

That is a very bad principle to follow, because authors copy from each other. In this way, many mistakes are perpetuated and assumed to be true.

Tony Williams

[ravensclaw]

To Mars:

One important thing to note is that with scoring the Germans did not share kills as the allies did so there will be ambiguities in records.

Late in the war the German record keeping system started to break down so confirming claims late in the war was difficult.

Due to this I would like to rephrase my question.

Can at least 90% of rudel's "claimed confirmed kills" be universally agreed as accurate?

Cheers

[ravensclaw]

C'mon guys this was Germany's best WWII combatant.

Cheers

[Grünherz]

:(

C'mon guys this was Germany's best WWII combatant.

Cheers

Well, he did acheive Germany's highest award (except for Goring's self-promotion award).
Was he Germany's best? Who knows. He was up there however. This list also includes Hartmann, Wittmann, etc.
Tom

[Juha Hujanen]

Well,there is doubt that Rudel was very brave.he was shot down 32 times

Apparently he wasn't very much liked by his comrades.In Finnish translation of his book Mein Kriegstagebusch is a part of letter that translator received in 2000.The writer who himself was a Stuka pilot writes that:

...Rudel wasn't liked nor respected among Stuka pilots...Arrogant,selfrightous and he always thinked only himself...many higly decorated Stuka pilots didn't want to have be with this man who demanded imbossilityes from his subordinates

Rudel was also an absolut and keen of taking care of his helth.There was even an proverb in Luftwaffe.Major Rudel trinkt nur Spudel (Major Rudel drinks only mineral water)

Cheers/Juha

[zvone]

Well,there is doubt that Rudel was very brave.he was shot down 32 times

He flew 2530 sorties and survived... Of course he was very brave

[Dieter Zinke]

Gentlemen,

please do not forget at all:

Rudel remains until his death the eternal Nazi !!

The pic from his funeral (22.12.1982) shows at left Walther Dahl und with "Hitlergruß" Otto Riehs.

Regards
Oberstab