The official AHF Luftwaffe quiz thread

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Luftwaffe air units and general discussions on the Luftwaffe.
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Maxschnauzer
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Re: The official AHF Luftwaffe quiz thread

#1606

Post by Maxschnauzer » 09 Oct 2014, 04:43

No takers yet? A navigation error on the part of the lead group which left them exposed without fighter escort was officially blamed for this disaster.
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Max

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Re: The official AHF Luftwaffe quiz thread

#1607

Post by jtemple507 » 09 Oct 2014, 22:14

Could it be the Schweinfurt Raid in October 1943?
Shooting 'em down in flames!


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Maxschnauzer
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Re: The official AHF Luftwaffe quiz thread

#1608

Post by Maxschnauzer » 10 Oct 2014, 00:41

We're getting closer but it's not Schweinfurt. Here's another clue:
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Re: The official AHF Luftwaffe quiz thread

#1609

Post by Maxschnauzer » 13 Oct 2014, 03:17

One final clue. The victims were of the 445th heavy bomber group, Eighth United States Air Force (USAAF VIII Bomber Command) and their intended target was the Henschel Motor Works.
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Re: The official AHF Luftwaffe quiz thread

#1610

Post by John Hilly » 13 Oct 2014, 15:30

"On September 27, 1944, the 445th Bomb Group flew a mission to Kassel, Germany with thirty-seven aircraft. There was a solid undercast and navigational errors were made such that a different target was hit (Gottingen) about thirty miles northeast of Kassel. This put the entire group out of the bomber stream: they were on their own. Ten minutes later, about one hundred German fighters jumped the group of bombers. The entire battle took less than five minutes. We lost twenty-five crews and ships at the scene of the tragedy. In addition, two ships crash landed in France, two crashed at Manston, England, and five crashed near our base at Tibenham, England, which means that only three ships returned and landed at our base."

"It started out uneventfully enough, with 39 planes scheduled to take off from our group. By the time we got into Germany there had been four aborts, so eventually 35 planes dropped their bombs."

"We carried on east, and finally dropped our bombs at Gottingen. We then made a turn to the south, and in the vicinity of Eisenach, we made a right turn to proceed west. By this time we were probably a hundred miles behind the rest of the division."

With best, J-P :milwink:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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Maxschnauzer
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Re: The official AHF Luftwaffe quiz thread

#1611

Post by Maxschnauzer » 14 Oct 2014, 00:09

Very good, J-P. Here is a brief account of the so-called Kassel Catastrophe:
This is the story of the most tragic heavy bomber mission in the history of military aviation and certainly in the history of the mighty Eighth United States Air Force (USAAF VIII Bomber Command). It took place during WWII and involved the 445th heavy bomber group which on September 27, 1944 was assigned a mission leaving their home base of Tibenham UK to bomb the Henschel Motor Works in Kassel, Germany. The Henschel motor works manufactured the Panzer class tanks and were the designers and sole manufacturers of the dreaded Tiger I and King Tiger II machines for the German army.

Of the 35 b-24 Liberator heavy bombers that left Tibenham air field that morning, only 4 returned that afternoon. Each B-24 bomber was flown by a 10 or 11 man air crew and due to 10/10 cloud cover over the target area, the decision was made to conduct the bomb run using radar guidance along the run. For reasons unknown for over 70 years, this bomber group which was the lead for the entire 2nd Combat Bomber Wing, penetrated to within 4 minutes of reaching the Henschel Motor Works when suddenly the formation deviated away from the bomb run leaving behind its fighter escorts and the defenses of the surrounding groups and alone bombed the wrong target Goerttingen, 28 miles to the northeast of Kassel.

As they turned westward in an attempt to rejoin the other bomber groups, being alone without defensive coverage, they were attacked by over 120 radar guided Luftwaffe interceptor aircraft and within 2 to 3 minutes 25 of the Liberator bombers were destroyed and fell to the ground, 6 crashed while trying to limp back to Tibenham and only 4 successfully returned to their home base. In terms of percent losses, this was the most catastrophic heavy bomber mission in the history of military aviation.

After an intense investigation assembled by Lt. Col. James Maitland Stewart, long time friend of the lead group commander Maj. Bill McCoy, who didn't return, the 2nd Combat Bomber Wing penned a report dated October 23, 1944 that blamed the lead crew and specifically the lead radar operator for a navigational error and for not recognizing the correct target. The report however did not explain why the 445th inexplicably turned toward Goerttingen halfway along its bomb run. In the pages of the book KASSEL, we show where this was a falsification on the part of the 8th USAF in an attempt to cover up the truth. We carefully examine the techniques and procedures of WWII navigation and bombing and for the first time apply the principles of scientific and technical analysis in an attempt to discover the reason why the 445th deviated from their bomb run while turning away in the wrong direction. From doing so, we have arrived at an unbelievably simple reason as to why things went so terribly wrong for the 445th.
http://bookstore.xlibris.com/Products/S ... ASSEL.aspx

Over to you now!
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Max

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John Hilly
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Re: The official AHF Luftwaffe quiz thread

#1612

Post by John Hilly » 22 Oct 2014, 16:56

Thanks Max!
I forgot this quiz and now I'm going to be off-line for a week, unfortunately.

So I must leave new question open for anyone interested!

With best, J-P :milwink:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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Maxschnauzer
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Re: The official AHF Luftwaffe quiz thread

#1613

Post by Maxschnauzer » 23 Oct 2014, 04:41

No problem J-P. I'll get the ball rolling again with a quick who, what, where, and when. Who was the first German pilot in WW2 to set foot on English soil, what was his aircraft, where and when did he land?
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Max

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Re: The official AHF Luftwaffe quiz thread

#1614

Post by Maxschnauzer » 26 Oct 2014, 04:09

OK then, here's a clue:
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Re: The official AHF Luftwaffe quiz thread

#1615

Post by Polar bear » 26 Oct 2014, 14:59

hi,

I only know that the first airman was wireless operator Fritz Ambrosius from Junkers 88 4D+EK, the first enemy aircraft to be brought down on 17 October 1939 on British soil, to be precise on the small island of Rysa Little (Orkney Islands/Scapa Flow).

greetings, the pb
Peace hath her victories no less renowned than War
(John Milton, the poet, in a letter to the Lord General Cromwell, May 1652)

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Maxschnauzer
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Re: The official AHF Luftwaffe quiz thread

#1616

Post by Maxschnauzer » 26 Oct 2014, 23:43

Good answer, pb, however the Orkney Islands are part of Scotland and I said English soil not British soil.
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Re: The official AHF Luftwaffe quiz thread

#1617

Post by Polar bear » 26 Oct 2014, 23:57

hi,

OK, next try
Feldwebel H. Wilms, flying a Heinkel He 111H, shot down by later famous Flight Lt. Peter Townsend of 43 Squadron on February 3, 1940. The Heinkel was forced to land at Bannial Flat Farm, Whitby, Yorkshire at 09.40.

greetings, the pb
Peace hath her victories no less renowned than War
(John Milton, the poet, in a letter to the Lord General Cromwell, May 1652)

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Maxschnauzer
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Re: The official AHF Luftwaffe quiz thread

#1618

Post by Maxschnauzer » 27 Oct 2014, 00:32

Close, but there was one earlier. Consider the clue...
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Max

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Re: The official AHF Luftwaffe quiz thread

#1619

Post by Maxschnauzer » 28 Oct 2014, 02:44

Here's another clue:
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Rob Stuart
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Re: The official AHF Luftwaffe quiz thread

#1620

Post by Rob Stuart » 28 Oct 2014, 04:35

According to http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research/hi ... /1939.aspx:

26 September
The first Luftwaffe aircraft is shot down during operations against the United Kingdom. A Dornier Do18D flying boat of 2/Küstenfliegergruppe 506 is shot down by a Blackburn Skua of No.803 Squadron, Fleet Air Arm, operating from the aircraft carrier HMS Ark Royal, north of the Great Fisher Bank. The crew of the Do18 are rescued by the destroyer HMS Somali and the aircraft, which was still afloat, is sunk by gunfire.


So the pilot of this aircraft was "the first German pilot in WW2 to set foot on English soil" and his aircraft was a Dornier Do18D flying boat of 2/Küstenfliegergruppe 506. As for where and when he landed, he landed at whichever English port the Somali deposited the crew on whatever date. I'm not sure where to look to find the port and date.

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