Generalmajor Alfred Gutknecht (1888-1946)

Discussions on the personalities of the Wehrmacht and of the organizations not covered in the other sections. Hosted by askropp and Frech.
User avatar
askropp
Forum Staff
Posts: 7482
Joined: 08 May 2008, 00:42

Generalmajor Alfred Gutknecht (1888-1946)

#1

Post by askropp » 27 Feb 2017, 02:04

As I explained here, we know that Gutknecht was captured by US troops in France in August 1944. The problem is that some sources claim he was in Germany at the time of the surrender, and he obviously was there at the time of his suicide in 1946. Although a small number of officer prisoners was exchanged and repatriated during the war, I have been unable to find any hint about a possible repatriation of GM Gutknecht. His Karteikarte is silent about this, the last entry is "vermisst" (added on 22.09.1944, when he had already been in Trent Park for weeks). According to the Island Farm website by Brett Exton, Gutknecht left Trent Park on 25.10.1944 with unknown destination. The info in Bradley, who does not mention Gutknecht's 1944 capture, evidently being faulty, it seems doubtful that he returned to Germany before the war's end. If we believe Bradley, he was still a PoW when he committed suicide in Berlin in November 1946. Regrettably, it is not mentioned who is supposed to have held him in which part of the divided city. It would make little sense for the Western Allies to transfer an unimportant prisoner to Berlin after the war, but if he was held by the Red Army, it would seem as if he was repatriated indeed. Has anybody any reliable information on Gutknecht's whereabouts between 25.10.1944 and 12.11.1946?
There are times in history when staying neutral means taking sides.

User avatar
JakeV
Member
Posts: 1554
Joined: 06 Apr 2010, 14:14
Location: Greece

Re: Generalmajor Alfred Gutknecht (1888-1946)

#2

Post by JakeV » 27 Feb 2017, 16:52

Hello,

I am also trying to determine the ultimate fate of GM Alfred Gutknecht. I cannot offer a definitive answer about his end, but I can add some information:

According to Derek R. Mallet's Hitler's Generals in America: Nazi POWs and Allied Military Intelligence (the pdf of the original dissertation can be found at http://oaktrust.library.tamu.edu/bitstr ... sequence=3), Gutknecht left Trent Park on 25.10.1944 for the Camp Clinton, Mississippi, United States, apparently because the Americans needed him to extract more information about the Wehrmacht Transportwesen. He arrived there towards the end of November 1944. He was still there in early January 1945; by then, his Americans captors noted that he was suffering by "barbed wire psychosis" – a type of mental disturbance affecting POWs. Because of that, he was transferred to a mental hospital for POWs, the Glennan General Hospital in Okmulgee, Oklahoma. From there onward, his fate is unclear. Mallett says that Gutknecht committed suicide on 12.11.1946 in Berlin, shortly after he was released from captivity. This information is seemingly based on Bradley et al., but also on BArch, MSG 109/886, which may contain additional information about his repatriation. He also mentions that the Allies had placed Gutknecht, who was by then working for the US Historical Division, on their watchlist in April 1946 because he, as a former police officer and apparent Nazi sympathizer, was among the potential candidates that could establish a quasi-military police force where ex-Nazis could receive training, so he was most probably back in Germany at that point. Based on this information, it is unlikely that:

1) the Allies would have allowed Gutknecht to return to Germany in April 1945, let alone hand him over to the Soviet Union
2) the OKW would have given him a new assignement (the animosity of the Heerespersonalamt towards him is evident by the comments of Linnarz on his Karteikarte, and in any case, Gutknecht was apparently suffering from mental disease, something that would have probably prevented an active assignment)

In any case, I tried searching the Namensverzeichnisse of the various Standesämter in Berlin for the deaths in 1946, but Gutknecht's name is nowhere to be found. I was also unsuccessful in locating information about the death of his wife, something that might have explained his suicide. It is, of course, possible that Gutknecht died under US watch and the responsible Standesamt in Berlin (unfortunately, I cannot tell which one it was) was informed at a later date (for example, GdI Georg Thomas died of cancer on 29.12.1946, but his death certificate was issued on 21.03.1947).

Another course of action would be requesting information from his birth certificate, as Geburtsurkunden frequently have notes about the marriage and death of an individual, and there would be no Sperrfrist as Gutknecht was born well over 100 years ago. However, Bismark (Altmark) doesn't seem to have a Stadtarchiv, and I don't really know which Stadt- or Gemeindearchiv or even Standesamt would keep the birth certificates from Badingen bei Stendal.

Hopefully one day we will find the answer to this rather unusual case.

Jake
Last edited by JakeV on 27 Feb 2017, 22:49, edited 1 time in total.


User avatar
askropp
Forum Staff
Posts: 7482
Joined: 08 May 2008, 00:42

Re: Generalmajor Alfred Gutknecht (1888-1946)

#3

Post by askropp » 27 Feb 2017, 22:13

Thank you! I knew Mallet (I learned about Gutknecht's capture from this work, see my link above), but I forgot to check him for further info this time. Although generals were still exchanged as late as February 1945 (Luftwaffe GL Gotthard Frantz), we still have no indication that this was indeed the case for Gutknecht, especially as one could doubt that the Wehrmacht would have wanted him back. Whether he was free or still a prisoner when he died, 1946 is a very early time for a general officer PoW to have returned to Germany, and it must have had something to do with his illness or mental state in any case. Until further info surfaces, this case remains unsolved for the time being.
There are times in history when staying neutral means taking sides.

User avatar
genstab
Member
Posts: 2116
Joined: 15 Jul 2003, 23:50
Location: The Big City on Lake Erie

Re: Generalmajor Alfred Gutknecht (1888-1946)

#4

Post by genstab » 02 Mar 2017, 14:12

I would like to thank you for posting this dissertation, Jake. I have been trying to find something in print about Camp Clinton as I understand it was the only military prison in the US that held German generals. As the British Bridgend Special camp 11 website is so rich in documentation on the generals it held I thought a book on Camp Clinton would also be rewarding.

BTW, there is apparently a forthcoming book on Camp Clinton by Mike Allard- it has been forthcoming for quite some time. I just found out it is a master's thesis held by the Mississippi College Library at Clinton, MS. World Cat says it is available at ww2.netdoor.com and I get a link there I am pursuing but personally i will contact the library if I have to in order to get a copy.

Best,
Bill in Cleveland

User avatar
genstab
Member
Posts: 2116
Joined: 15 Jul 2003, 23:50
Location: The Big City on Lake Erie

Re: Generalmajor Alfred Gutknecht (1888-1946)

#5

Post by genstab » 05 Mar 2017, 12:53

I talked to the librarian at the Clinton MS library. They only have three copies of the manuscript but don't do interlibrary loans- only way is to have them make photocopies. I am pursuing this and will post the costs for anyone interested when I get them- waiting to hear back. I don't know how many pages the manuscript is yet.

Best,
Bill in Cleveland

dusty_shelf
Member
Posts: 33
Joined: 08 Apr 2013, 03:30

Re: Generalmajor Alfred Gutknecht (1888-1946)

#6

Post by dusty_shelf » 06 Mar 2017, 04:54

Well, it seems we have a bit of an issue here. This thesis you are talking about is mine and it is protected by copyright and cannot be copied. genstab, who are you to offer copies of my work? I seem to recall the conversation we had some time ago when you were fishing around for a copy. I told you then I distributed copies only to those directly connected to the camp or my research. Is this your clever way of going around me? You intend to write a history of the camp yet have only sought out the work of another. What is the research you have done?

You mentioned my pending book. It is still in the works. I have had a serious medical issue that lasted for the better part of a year. It caused me to miss months of work. I am now only feeling well enough to get back to my writing. In fact, just this evening I proofed the first two chapters.

I will be speaking with the MC library tomorrow about this matter.

User avatar
genstab
Member
Posts: 2116
Joined: 15 Jul 2003, 23:50
Location: The Big City on Lake Erie

Re: Generalmajor Alfred Gutknecht (1888-1946)

#7

Post by genstab » 06 Mar 2017, 22:27

Why do you take that tone of voice with me? I have a contract for an 1800 page O/B manuscript with a publisher. That's all I was looking for, anything out of the generals' biographical careers re commands and exact dates I don't have. And it might never do me any good because that would necessitate a second edition of my work which won't earn me beans anyway- it's too specialist. I can't remember ever talking to you either- indeed I drew blanks trying to find a working email address on you last week. I just downloaded a fine 400 page doctoral thesis covering military intelligence and the German generals that was submitted to Texas A & M (yes, an E-book without fees expected, imagine that) but it didn't have anything at all on their commands I didn't have.

You don't have to worry about the Clinton library- they don't copy manuscripts or do interlibrary loan. If I wanted to come down there (God forbid) they would help with copying chapters. I doubt it'd be worth it for what I'm looking for. I'm sure you don't have any Bridgend Island Farm type material which is as good as it gets. And Brent Exxon is a helpful and cooperative person.

Bill in Cleveland (NOT Mississippi!)

User avatar
Requin Marteau
Member
Posts: 3678
Joined: 03 Jul 2002, 11:52
Location: FRANCE

GM Alfred Gutknecht

#8

Post by Requin Marteau » 22 Jul 2017, 09:08

Bonjour,

Research infos (bio and awards) on Generalmajor Alfred Gutknecht (20.06.1888 Badingen, 12.11.1946 Berlin), served under Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck.

Crdl
Thierry

Cartaphilus
Member
Posts: 552
Joined: 06 May 2010, 19:57

Re: GM Alfred Gutknecht

#9

Post by Cartaphilus » 22 Jul 2017, 10:14

Image

User avatar
Requin Marteau
Member
Posts: 3678
Joined: 03 Jul 2002, 11:52
Location: FRANCE

Re: GM Alfred Gutknecht

#10

Post by Requin Marteau » 22 Jul 2017, 10:38

Thanks,

Höherer Kdr d. Kraftfahrtruppen West, captured near Reims on 26 or 29.08.1944 (wiki, metapedia) ???
Kraftfahr-Inspekteur/OB Süd on 22.04.1945 (Island Camp 11) ???
What's the Real ?

Thierry

User avatar
askropp
Forum Staff
Posts: 7482
Joined: 08 May 2008, 00:42

Generalmajor Alfred Gutknecht (1888-1946)

#11

Post by askropp » 22 Jul 2017, 11:41

Neither Bradley nor Gutknecht's Karteikarte mention the Spange zum EK I. Given his assignments, I don't believe he ever got it.
There are times in history when staying neutral means taking sides.

User avatar
askropp
Forum Staff
Posts: 7482
Joined: 08 May 2008, 00:42

Re: Generalmajor Alfred Gutknecht (1888-1946)

#12

Post by askropp » 30 Jul 2017, 18:47

I just noticed Jake's inquiry for death places on the Balsi forum, and it looks now as if Gutknecht died (by his own hand) in Trent Park. This probably means that he was never repatriated but remained in Britain for all the time since his capture in August 1944.
There are times in history when staying neutral means taking sides.

User avatar
JakeV
Member
Posts: 1554
Joined: 06 Apr 2010, 14:14
Location: Greece

Re: Generalmajor Alfred Gutknecht (1888-1946)

#13

Post by JakeV » 30 Jul 2017, 19:09

I, too, thought that maybe the question was solved, but I have my reservations. There is a central name catalog for all death registrations for England and Wales since the 19th century. However, I couldn't find Gutknecht's name in it (or even a similar name, taking the possibility of a spelling mistake into account).

In contrast, the deaths of other German POWs who died in the UK are indexed there, including GFM Ernst Busch, SS-Obergruppenführer Maximilian von Herff and Kriminalrat Hans Ziegler, Gestapo chief in Zlin, (the latter also committed suicide in captivity).

So, I think that the question still remains open!

luftk
Member
Posts: 495
Joined: 11 Jun 2014, 22:02

Re: Generalmajor Alfred Gutknecht (1888-1946)

#14

Post by luftk » 30 Jul 2017, 21:28

JakeV wrote:I, too, thought that maybe the question was solved, but I have my reservations. There is a central name catalog for all death registrations for England and Wales since the 19th century. However, I couldn't find Gutknecht's name in it (or even a similar name, taking the possibility of a spelling mistake into account).

In contrast, the deaths of other German POWs who died in the UK are indexed there, including GFM Ernst Busch, SS-Obergruppenführer Maximilian von Herff and Kriminalrat Hans Ziegler, Gestapo chief in Zlin, (the latter also committed suicide in captivity).

So, I think that the question still remains open!
Is this catalogue online by any chance? I would like to look at the POW death entries.

User avatar
JakeV
Member
Posts: 1554
Joined: 06 Apr 2010, 14:14
Location: Greece

Re: Generalmajor Alfred Gutknecht (1888-1946)

#15

Post by JakeV » 30 Jul 2017, 22:10

The catalog is a general death registration index for deaths that occured in Great Britain and Wales and can be searched via FamilySearch, but is not viewable for free per se (it can be viewed via Ancestry, but you have to pay a subscription fee). The entries are sorted by surname, so you have to know for which POW you are searching – the catalog has no part exclusively for POWs or non-British subject. Furthermore, the entries per se are a bit vague, in the sense that only the 3-month interval in which the death occured is given, and no exact place of death, but the higher-level registration district, and the number of the certificate. But the point is, you can use this information to purchase the birth certificate from the responsible registry office, which I have not done personally.

Regards

Post Reply

Return to “The Dieter Zinke Axis Biographical Research Section”