ID please

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Stauffenberg II
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#16

Post by Stauffenberg II » 21 Jun 2003, 08:53

Jeff,
thanks for the F. Breith pic.

Degen is wearing a Finnish Cross of Liberty 1st Class.

See
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopi ... ight=degen

Regards
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K.Kocjancic
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Re: ID please

#17

Post by K.Kocjancic » 21 Jun 2003, 09:26

Stauffenberg II wrote:Kocjo recently posted this pic in the Documents, Postcards sub-forum:

Image

Does anybody know the General. He looks very familiar. Furthermore I think he could wear an arm badge on the right arm, i. e. he might be a Gebirgsjäger or Jäger General. And: What is he wearing around his neck?

Thank´s for help,
Stauffenberg II
I'm not sure, but this photo might be from Slovenia? One day I have to check in MNZS.
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USAF1986
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#18

Post by USAF1986 » 21 Jun 2003, 09:45

Per Glenn’s previous observation and the photos/text in Mark Yerger’s book, I strongly suspect this mystery general was photographed in Slovenia. The photos in the book depict him with SS-Obergruppenführer und General der Waffen-SS und Polizei Erwin Rösener, the Leader of SS-Oberabschnitt “Alpenland.” However, from 1 November 1944-May 1945, SS-Brigadeführer und Generalmajor der Polizei Hermann Harm deputized for Rösener although the latter remained in titular command. During this period, Rösener concentrated on anti-partisan duties in Slovenia.

The three photos of Rösener/mystery general were all taken at a railway station in a mountainous area. A lot of people (luckily not the mystery general!) are wearing overcoats with hands shoved in pockets and some snow is visible on the nearby slopes just above the railway tracks. The mystery general is not wearing anything else besides his Knight’s Cross, DKiG, 1914 EKI with 1939 Bar and the mountain troop sleeve/cap insignia. This guy has really got me intrigued!

Regards,
Shawn

P.S. Rösener is also wearing mountain troop sleeve/cap insignia in the photos!
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Stauffenberg II
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#19

Post by Stauffenberg II » 21 Jun 2003, 10:03

If so the man in question rather was a Cdr. of a Jägerdivision.
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Peter H
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#20

Post by Peter H » 21 Jun 2003, 10:26

Is it Fretter-Pico?

Image

http://www.thirdreichforum.com/files/525_1035109381.jpg
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Harri
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#21

Post by Harri » 21 Jun 2003, 11:05

Damn, this guy looks almost like any German general. It seems that it is out of the question that the photo would have been taken in Norway? It is not Degen if the photo is dated after late 1943 unless 2.Geb.D was moved somewhere from Norway in 1945?

If the general wasn't of mountain troops I think Fretter-Pico would be yet another good match.

More photos would be needed.
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K.Kocjancic
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#22

Post by K.Kocjancic » 21 Jun 2003, 14:16

Harri wrote:Damn, this guy looks almost like any German general. It seems that it is out of the question that the photo would have been taken in Norway? It is not Degen if the photo is dated after late 1943 unless 2.Geb.D was moved somewhere from Norway in 1945?

If the general wasn't of mountain troops I think Fretter-Pico would be yet another good match.

More photos would be needed.
More photos would be needed.
I'll try to find it. I already have several photos from Slovenia with Rösener and Heer/W-SS generals.

Regards,
Kocjo
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Wilfried Abenaschon
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#23

Post by Wilfried Abenaschon » 22 Jun 2003, 00:23

Hi,

So post them then!!! (don't have any of Rösener) :D

I think that von Fretter-Pico (firstname?) matches the man of the top pic... Look at the bags under his eyes, the same nose, cheeks and the ears are very similar! IMHO, you got it!

Willab
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J.N. Houterman
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#24

Post by J.N. Houterman » 22 Jun 2003, 01:48

Another one of

General der Artillerie Maximilian Fretter-Pico
(06.02.1892 - 04.04.1984)

Cheers,

Hans
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Glenn2438
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Fretter

#25

Post by Glenn2438 » 22 Jun 2003, 09:59

Unfortunately the mystery general cannot be Fretter-Pico. Maximilian Fretter-Pico was already a General der Artillerie since 01 June 1942, had the oakleaves since 16 January 1944 and had no connection with the Mountain Troops.

The mystery general is a Generalleutnant without the oakleaves and wears Mountain Troops insignia. The photographs taken with Rösener must date at the earliest after July 1944 when that oficer was promoted to SS-Obergruppenführer and in fact appear to be taken in the winter of 1944/45.

Regards
Glenn
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K.Kocjancic
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#26

Post by K.Kocjancic » 22 Jun 2003, 11:20

Wilfried Abenaschon wrote:Hi,

So post them then!!! (don't have any of Rösener) :D

I think that von Fretter-Pico (firstname?) matches the man of the top pic... Look at the bags under his eyes, the same nose, cheeks and the ears are very similar! IMHO, you got it!

Willab
Patience is a virtue! :lol:

I'll soon post one photo of Rösener from side of the face in "my" thread: http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=21727

Regards,
Kocjo
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Phil Nix
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#27

Post by Phil Nix » 22 Jun 2003, 11:35

USAF1986 wrote:Per Glenn’s previous observation and the photos/text in Mark Yerger’s book, I strongly suspect this mystery general was photographed in Slovenia. The photos in the book depict him with SS-Obergruppenführer und General der Waffen-SS und Polizei Erwin Rösener, the Leader of SS-Oberabschnitt “Alpenland.” However, from 1 November 1944-May 1945, SS-Brigadeführer und Generalmajor der Polizei Hermann Harm deputized for Rösener although the latter remained in titular command. During this period, Rösener concentrated on anti-partisan duties in Slovenia.

The three photos of Rösener/mystery general were all taken at a railway station in a mountainous area. A lot of people (luckily not the mystery general!) are wearing overcoats with hands shoved in pockets and some snow is visible on the nearby slopes just above the railway tracks. The mystery general is not wearing anything else besides his Knight’s Cross, DKiG, 1914 EKI with 1939 Bar and the mountain troop sleeve/cap insignia. This guy has really got me intrigued!

Regards,
Shawn
Hi
The source for it being Franz Bohme was the late Jost Schneider from where the photos originated. It also says that it was taken in Carinthia early 1945. Rosener was Leiter Führungsstab fur bandenkampfverbande in Laibach. Rosener was suffering from paratyphus for September 1944 and it is thought that this re-accured occasionally. Notes in his file show that RFSS complained that he spent too much time in Berlin but htis may have been for treatment.
Philmil

P.S. Rösener is also wearing mountain troop sleeve/cap insignia in the photos!
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Harri
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#28

Post by Harri » 22 Jun 2003, 12:05

I think Franz Böhme was promoted to the rank of General der Gebirgstruppen already when he was in Finland commanding XVIII Gebirgs-AK (6.42 - 11.43). So he is absolutely out of the question...
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K.Kocjancic
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#29

Post by K.Kocjancic » 22 Jun 2003, 12:33

Photo of Rösener is now posted here:
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopi ... &start=255
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Svennie
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#30

Post by Svennie » 22 Jun 2003, 17:24

Maybe this can help. Source: Werner Haupt - die deutschen Infanteriedivisionen Band 3

According to this book, the following infantry divisions were in the Balkans on July 15, 1944. Between brackets the commander on 10 June 1944
98 (Reinhardt)
100
181 (Fischer)
264
297 (Baier)
369 (Ob. Fischer)
373 (Aldrian)
392 (Mickl)
110 Jag
114 Jag
117 Jag
118 Jag

Later also 104 Jäg Div. joined the rest. Unfortunately I was unable to find the commanders of these divisions. Who can provide further help?

Sven
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