Promotion terminology- Patent, Wirkung, RDA

[Michael Miller]

Seeking an explanation of the following terms relating to promotion, seniority, and effective date of rank:

* Patent; e.g.: "Promoted NSKK-Standartenfuhrer 1 October 1934 (mit Patent vom 9 November 1933)"

* mit Wirkung vom; e.g.: "Promoted SS-Obergruppenfuhrer und General der Polizei 8 April 1944 (mit Wirkung vom 20 April 1944)"

* mit RDA vom (RDA = Rangdienstalter); e.g.: "Promoted 18 December 1920 to Oberstleutnant (mit RDA vom 1 October 1920)"


Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Best wishes,
~ Mike / ABR

[Phil Nix]

Can I add my name to Mikes is requesting explanation of these terms
Thks Philmil

[thomas]

Dear both

I have some informations about this:

1. Patent. It means that they have made the Patent before the promotions date. In this case means that he made the patent in 9.11.1933. That means he can be promotode from this date, but in this special case he received that only in the year 1934. Normaly this expression is only used in the Wehrmacht.

2. Mit Wirkung This means that he is promoted in a specific rank, but he he takes this rank later. In this case he received the promotion on April 8, 1944. But he is allowed to wear the uniform and he receives the salary only from April 20, 1944. So between the April 8 and April 20 he stays in the rank fo Gruppenführer, but had already the promotion to Obergruppenführer. This case is usual if he will take an new function, but he can not take the function yet.

3. RDA I think that means not Rangdienstalter, but Mit Rückdatierung. It is the same case like nr. 2, but in the other way. Rückdatierung means that he had the promotion December 18, 1920, but in all papers (salary, money after the retirement and so on) is the date October 1, 1920 importent. This case is often when he has already take over the new function, but he has not yet the rank for this new function.

I hope i have explained well the history.

Greeting

thomas

[Phil Nix]

Excellent reply thank you very much.
Philmil

[Andreas Schulz]

RDA = Rangdienstalter = Patent (former name)
BDA = Besoldungsdienstalter

AnDie

[Svennie]

Michael,
should you be looking for an elaborate explanation, please refer to the following articles
Dr. Dermot Bradley
Military Rank systems
In: An Cosantoir (dublin, Ireland)
April 1965 pp 167 ff

Dr. Dermot Bradley
Ranglisten
In: Wehrkunde
25 Jahrgang Heft 2/1976 S.79 ff, Heft 3/1976 S.164, Heft 4/1976 S.205 & heft 6/1976 S.308

Bradley is an irish historian who also did not have a clue about RDA etc. when he started studying German military history, so he delved into the matter and clarified it up.
(I have not read it myself)

Sven

[askropp]

Regarding promotions and assignments "mit Wirkung vom", there is still one question left for me. In the case of promotions, everything seems clear:

Case 1: Hauptmann Müller is promoted to Major on 15 September "mit Wirkung vom 1. Oktober".
This is the standard procedure. Promotions are generally issued on the first of each month, the candidates are decided on some time earlier, they are informed of their promotion but have to wait for the beginning of the next month. Müller stays a Hauptmann until and including 30 September and becomes a Major on midnight 1 October.

Case 2: Hauptmann Müller is promoted to Major on 15 September "mit Wirkung vom 1. September".
Not so frequent, but in no way extraordinary. Müller was a Hauptmann until 15 September, is then informed of his immediate promotion and will be treated as if he had been promoted on 1 September, a.e. regarding his pay (he will get a Major's pay for the whole month of September) or the obligatory time needed to advance to the next higher rank (if it is standard to remain a Major for two years until moving on to Oberstleutnant, the time count will start on 1 September).

Now to the case of assignments:

Case 3: Oberstleutnant Meyer is assigned as Kommandeur of Regiment X on 15 September "mit Wirkung vom 1. Oktober".
Another standard procedure. After earmarking Meyer for a new assignment, he gets some time to prepare for the change and his new post. On 1 October, the takeover takes place.

But now for

Case 4: Oberstleutnant Meyer is assigned as Kommandeur of Regiment X on 15 September "mit Wirkung vom 1. September".
This I don't quite understand. When did the actual takeover happen, on 1 or 15 September? Or possibly even at another date? And what is the benefit of backdating an assignment anyway? Could somebody explain?

[pgdwiking]

Sorry all,

does anyone have the solution of Case 4 ?

Thaks

massimo

[askropp]

I would now say it has something to do with formalizing existing actual commands (mstFb or mFb).

[pgdwiking]

Thanks askropp

massimo