Reichsfreiherr what does it mean?

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Redbaron1908
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Reichsfreiherr what does it mean?

#1

Post by Redbaron1908 » 28 Jul 2003, 01:52

Hello,

I was looking through the factbook and saw that some one had this title-

Generalfeldmarschall Maximilian Reichsfreiherr
von Weichs

I am wandering what "Reichsfreiherr" is and if anyone could provide me anymore information as who had the title?

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#2

Post by nondescript handle » 28 Jul 2003, 03:01

"Reichsfreiherr" is an old title of nobility. A Freiherr is of about the equal rank as an english Baron. The "Reich"("Imperial") prefix denotes that, in the old feudal system of the First Reich, the bearers of this title were "outside" the "feudal chain of command" (i.e. Freiherr->Graf(Count)->Herzog(Duke)->King/Emperor). A Reichsfreiherr was the direct vassal of the Emperor.
In the Third Reich, which wasn't a monarchy, the title was only a part of the family name (but the old nobility was still influential in the Wehrmacht).

Regards
Mark


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Redbaron1908
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#3

Post by Redbaron1908 » 28 Jul 2003, 03:43

Thank you for the information nondescript handle. I have another question do you or does anyone know if many people had this title?

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#4

Post by Champymiddle » 28 Jul 2003, 06:45

That is very hard to find... but i am not very good at researching either :D

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tlcm51fr
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#5

Post by tlcm51fr » 28 Jul 2003, 14:22

hi all

in order :

-Ritter (knight) and Edler

-Freiherr (baron) and Reichfreiherr

-Graf (count) Reichgraf, Burggraf

-Markrgraf (marquis)

-Prinz - Fürst - Erbprinz
Prinz : prince
Fürst : hereditary prince only for a linie (Grandbrother in familie)
Erbprinz : hereditary prince for familie hause : chef of all familie's hause of a name)
Fürst and Erbprinz are in priority for man

-Herzog (duke)

-König

for Female :
Edle
Freifrau
Gräfin
Markgräfin
Prinzessin - Fürstin
Herzogin
Königin

but there is some differences for ex :

daughter of a Graf(in) and Frei-herr(frau) are Komtess and Freiin or Baroness are good appelation

and other ex.

for catholic aristocrat in Bayern, Westfalen or Freiherr in Autria the good appellation is Baron (or Baronin for female). For ex. Baron Boeselager (no Freiherr v. Boeselager, Baron is latin word). Freiherr v. Boeselager is only for adress but appelation is for ex. Sehr geehrter Baron Boeselager, Lieber Baron Boeselager, hallo Baron Boeselager etc... (without "von")

and a lot of ex for others title aristo.

it is a little complicated and sometimes I am lose. But if somebody has any questions...

regards

Thomas

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#6

Post by Nagelfar » 28 Jul 2003, 23:12

Very Interesting. thanks..

but is there no equivalent for an Earl or Thane? I've read the names "Landgraf" & "Pfalzgraf" at the the very low & high end of certain noble german titles

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#7

Post by nondescript handle » 29 Jul 2003, 03:21

@Nagelfar: British and German nobility is not that easy compareable: Marquis, Earl and Viscount are all translated as Graf (Marquis sometimes as "Markgraf", Viscount rarely as "Vizegraf", a title only used for that purpose).
"Landgraf" was similar to "Reichsfreiherr" in his direct feudal relationship with the Emperor. Otherwise not different from a plain "Graf".
"Markgraf" was a "Graf" who had a "Mark" as his fiefdom, a "Mark" was a quite large piece of land located at the border of the realm. "Markgraf"s had additional privilages and honors as guards and defenders of the realm.
"Pfalzgraf" was a titel with a special position : the "Vice-king or Vice-Emperor","Lordjudge" and regent if the King was a Minor or the Emperor was dead. The "Pfalzgraf vom Rhein" was one of the seven "Kurfürst"s and the "Pfalzgraf" of the Emperor.
The feudal system of the "Sacrum Romanum Imperium Nationis Germanica" was quite complex.

Regards
Mark

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Scott Smith
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#8

Post by Scott Smith » 29 Jul 2003, 03:36

What context would an Erlkönig fall under?
:)

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#9

Post by Nagelfar » 29 Jul 2003, 07:39

nondescript handle wrote:@Nagelfar: British and German nobility is not that easy compareable: Marquis, Earl and Viscount are all translated as Graf (Marquis sometimes as "Markgraf", Viscount rarely as "Vizegraf", a title only used for that purpose).
"Landgraf" was similar to "Reichsfreiherr" in his direct feudal relationship with the Emperor. Otherwise not different from a plain "Graf".
"Markgraf" was a "Graf" who had a "Mark" as his fiefdom, a "Mark" was a quite large piece of land located at the border of the realm. "Markgraf"s had additional privilages and honors as guards and defenders of the realm.
"Pfalzgraf" was a titel with a special position : the "Vice-king or Vice-Emperor","Lordjudge" and regent if the King was a Minor or the Emperor was dead. The "Pfalzgraf vom Rhein" was one of the seven "Kurfürst"s and the "Pfalzgraf" of the Emperor.
The feudal system of the "Sacrum Romanum Imperium Nationis Germanica" was quite complex.

Regards
Mark
Thanks.

I looked in my German-English dictionary, and it translates "Thane" as "Lehnsmann", but I don't know how directly comparable that is. I know a 'Thane' is just below an "Earl" in the Anglo-Saxon Germanic nobility.
Scott Smith wrote:
What context would an Erlkönig fall under?
Yes, I've seen that too

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#10

Post by Weiss Wurst » 29 Jul 2003, 08:46

Does not that title translate literally? It would seem to read as "free-man of the state" or perhaps "states free-man". Since this is a title of nobility it would make sense that the title denotes status or freedom to hold land and make rules without express governance from the state.

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#11

Post by K.Kocjancic » 29 Jul 2003, 08:53

Isn't there also VON, the lowest form of nobility?

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#12

Post by tlcm51fr » 29 Jul 2003, 14:32

hi

an ex:
son's of Reichskanzlers Max v. Baden was Prinz v. Baden but after he became Markgraf v. Baden (I didn't know why ?)

Kocjo,
yes "von" is lowest form of nobility.
it is the most group of aristo. familie. they are "without title" familie group.
there is :
"von"
"von und zu"
"zu"
"am" or "vom" (very rare)
but there are aristo familie without particle

-all nobility's names are named 14 century to 1918
-there are nobility adoptions
-there are families which refuse the nobility (for ex. for emigration/integration in America during its creation etc...)
-there are aristo families which are erase (for ex. for crime etc...)

only Markgrafen, Platzgrafen, and Fürsten can to chose a Kaiser


Erlkönig ?? where are you see this title

in order :
Herzog - König - Kaiser
a König is in the head of all Germanic people
König is after "group of Princes"
König meant "Chunni" : Geschlecht (in German) or Familie/Lineage (in English I think)
in history there are a lot problems with Kaiser(laic) and Pope(spiritual) to nominated a König
In Deutschland (to 1918) there are only 5 König :
Bayern, Preussen, Sachsen and Württemberg
There are some privileges and appelation is "Eure Majestät"

I am interested if a person what does it mean an "Erlkönig"

Thomas

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#13

Post by tlcm51fr » 29 Jul 2003, 14:53

now I think that Erlkönig is in mythology : King of Adler

But that doesn't relate the aristocrat hierarchy. I know that exist a lot of litterature of Erlkönig, I believe. A German will be better to explain than me...

regards

Thomas

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#14

Post by nondescript handle » 29 Jul 2003, 15:02

"Erlkönig" was coined 1778 by J.G. von Herder in a ballad. Its a wrong translation from the danish "ellerkonige" ("elven king").
Goethe made this term quite popular in his adaption of the ballad.
So its not a real title, unless you happen to live in middle-earth :lol:

Regards
Mark

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#15

Post by walterkaschner » 30 Jul 2003, 00:14

Scott Smith asked (with tongue I would guess in cheek):
What context would an Erlkönig fall under?
Answer: A lieder consisting of a poem by Goethe set to music by Franz Schubert and, in its finest form, sung by Fischer-Dieskau.

Regards, Kaschner

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