Save the grave of Walter Nowotny

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Subedei
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Re: German war Graves commision

#16

Post by Subedei » 22 Aug 2003, 19:45

Matt Gibbs wrote:Don't know if its worth contacting them..?
I am not good at reading german so maybe another member can have a read of their page..?

http://www.volksbund.de/

regards
MG
This is the German Wargraves Commission. So they won't
be of much help in this case.
The Austrian one:

http://www.osk.at/

The only thing about Nowotny I found on their side was this
open letter:
Mag. Josef SCHANTL wrote: Offener Brief zum Thema „Aberkennung des Ehrengrabes für Major Walter Nowotny“

Auf dem Zentralfriedhof in Wien befindet sich unter den vielen Ehrengräbern jenes von Major Walter Nowotny, einem der erfolgreichsten deutschen Jagdflieger des Zweiten Weltkrieges, der am 8. November 1944 gefallen ist.

In einer Zeit des totalen Bombenkrieges, der Flächenbombardements von Städten des damaligen Deutschen Reiches, ist es durchaus verständlich, dass ihm die damalige Stadtverwaltung ein Ehrengrab gewidmet hat. Diese Widmung können und wollen offensichtlich heute nur mehr jene verstehen, die diese Bombardements, so wie ich (Jahrgang 1932), noch hautnah miterlebt haben.

Die Frage, ob Major Nowotny tatsächlich Mitglied der NSDAP gewesen ist, stellt sich nicht, denn nicht als solchem wurde ihm das Ehrengrab gewidmet. Noch heute gedenken dort Veteranen der Alliierten des ehemaligen Gegners durch Kranzniederlegungen. Dieses Grab ist genau so wie die Soldatenfriedhöfe der ehemaligen Deutschen Armee und der Roten Armee Bestandteil unserer Geschichte. Auch das Siegesdenkmal der Roten Armee auf dem Schwarzenbergplatz in Wien gehört dazu.

Wer derartiges eliminieren will, löscht diese – unsere – Geschichte aus und leugnet die historische Wahrheit. Den Antragstellern sei ins Stammbuch geschrieben: „Bitte lernen Sie Geschichte, meine Damen und Herren, Soldatengräber und Denkmäler sind nun einmal Teil unserer oft leidvollen Geschichte, aus denen unsere Jugend die ,Versöhnung über den Gräbern’ lernen sollte.“

Ehrengrab ja oder nein. Faktum ist, es ist ein Soldatengrab. Jedem Kriegstoten, egal ob Soldat oder Zivilist, steht ein verfassungsgesetzlich garantiertes ewiges Ruherecht zu. Wer dieses missachtet, sprengt den Verfassungsbogen!

Mag. Josef SCHANTL
Generalsekretär des ÖSK
My translation:

Open letter on the subject 'Removal of the grave of honour of Mayor
Walter Nowotny'

At the Zentralfriedhof in Vienna many graves of honour are located, one
of them the one of Major Walter Nowotny, one of the most successful
German fighter pilots of the Second World War who died at the
8. November of 1944.

In a time of a war of total bombardments, the carpet bombing of cities in
the then German empire, it is understandable that the then city council
devoted him a grave of honour. Apparently today only people who like
me (born 1932) have experianced this bombardments can and want
understand this devotement.

The question if Major Nowotny really was a member of the NSDAP is
irrelevant, because his grave of honour wasn't devoted to him as such.
Even today veterans of the Allies commemorate their former enemy
at this grave. This grave is part of our history just like the soldier
graveyards of the former German Army or Red Army. Also the victory
monument of the Red Army at the Schwarzenbergplatz in Vienna is
part of it.

They who eliminate this erase this - our - history and deny the historical
truth. To the proposers: "Please, learn history, Ladies and Gentlemen,
soldiers graves and monuments are sadly part of our often painful
history, of which our youth should learn the 'reconcilation over graves'."

Grave of honour yes or no. It is a soldiers grave, every dead of war,
regardless of soldier or civilian, has the constitutional right of everlasting
peace. Who dishonours this, acts against the constitution.

Mag. Josef Schantl
secretary general of the ÖSK

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Beppo Schmidt
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#17

Post by Beppo Schmidt » 22 Aug 2003, 20:54

I literally almost started crying when I read that, because I am an admirer of Herr Major Nowotny, he was not a Nazi, he was a soldier who fought well and bravely in defense of his country, and he deserves the right to his own grave as much as any RAF or USAF pilot! Anyone who disturbs his grave should be ashamed of themselves. What are they going to do next? Throw Rommel's ashes onto a landfill? This is absolutely disgraceful and completely disrespectful to someone who risked his life for his country, and I really hope it is not allowed to happen. My great-uncle was killed fighting against the Russians, I would never dream in a hundred years of defacing a Russian soldier's grave. I'm just glad Nowotny and Rommel and the other German and Austrian heroes who happened to be serving under a bad government didn't live to see how politically twisted and spineless their countries are today. German veterans are treated like such crap it's criminal.


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Markbg
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Walter Nowotny

#18

Post by Markbg » 24 Aug 2003, 18:44

I think it is absolutely disgusting. Surely they cannot get away with it, no matter whether the person is a Luftwaffe ace or not surely it is not right to disturb them, they should at least be able to rest in peace !!
(I think that if he wasn't a Luftwaffe pilot he would have been left where he is !!)
unbelievable.

\Mark

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karltrowitz
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Major Walter Nowotny, a shocking story....

#19

Post by karltrowitz » 29 Aug 2003, 12:06

To read a really horrendous story about Major Walter Nowotny and political correctness gone crazy, look at the following link

http://www.valortours.com/valorboard/messages/205.html


Personally I think it is an utterly disgusting affair and it brings nothing but shame to Austria and the Austrian people.

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Juancho
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Location: Sydney, Australia

we talked about this before

#20

Post by Juancho » 29 Aug 2003, 14:21

We talked about this before, though I think his ashes are definitely not being removed from where they are.
Everyone with a common sense would leave Nowotny where he is.


regards,

Juan

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hauptmannn
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#21

Post by hauptmannn » 29 Aug 2003, 15:21

I'm sorry but i am a little confused why this is so shocking? He was merely a soldier and a good one too if he shot down over 250 planes its just like moving erwin rommel's grave because he commanded the Afrika Korps and with them killed many thousands of British and Commonwealth soldiers. :?

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Gott
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#22

Post by Gott » 29 Aug 2003, 15:45

I honestly think nobody should touch poor Nowotny's grave. People ought to give him at least some respect as a soldier, and though if he really doesn't deserve to be buried in the 'grave of honour,' he deserves no insults from these campaigners. If they are going to move his remains to some pauper's grave, I'll pay the costs and let him have a better place to be buried.

Did Nowotny's family speak out about the issue?

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Dunkirchen1940
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#23

Post by Dunkirchen1940 » 29 Aug 2003, 16:54

This is absolutely INSANE! Why now are they doing this. It is time to forgive him for what he was involved in and treat him with respect and hornor.
After all, he commanded the first Jet Fighter squadron, and was one of the top aces of all time.
Karl

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matthews_au
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#24

Post by matthews_au » 29 Aug 2003, 17:23

Thank you Gott...well said. My own belief is that the individual deeds of men transcend any poltical agenda. Is there a greater honour than dying for ones country? The greater warriors of history have not necessarily been politically motivated...they have just been good warriors.

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Locke
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#25

Post by Locke » 29 Aug 2003, 22:27

It's really disgusting. They should leave him in his grave.
Nowotny even sent a sharp protest to Hitler when 47 allied pilots were shot when they were trying to escape from P.O.W. camp.

Wilfried Abenaschon
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#26

Post by Wilfried Abenaschon » 30 Aug 2003, 11:00

This issue was raised in July, any fresh news about this stupid scandal?

Willab

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Locke
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#27

Post by Locke » 30 Aug 2003, 17:41

A group of left extremists desecrated Nowotny's grave. They wrote "murder" in front of his grave with orange spray and they painted a hackenkreuz and crossed it. They also wrote "Never again fascism"

Here's a link to a site where the attackers assumed the responsibility
http://www.tatblatt.net/202/202ots-nowotny.htm

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R.M. Schultz
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#28

Post by R.M. Schultz » 31 Aug 2003, 00:17

There is a fundamental difference between between just wars (e.g. the American War of Independence or the Finnish Winter War) which are to be celebrated, wars of power politics (e.g. the Finns joining the Germans in invading Russia in 1941, or WW1) in which good citizens participate reluctantly, wars of imperialism (e.g. The Mexican War or the Boer War) which men of good will oppose, and wars that are simply unjust and indefensible (the Nazi war against the Jews, the Japanese invasion of China, the American Civil War) that call for active resistance.

The problem of war guilt in Austria is a complex one, and not being Austrian I'm not sure of how to deal with it. But I do know that as an American I am disgusted by the statues in every Southern City of the defenders of slavery. There were men of good will in the South who opposed the war, yet I doubt there is a single monument to these patriots throughout Dixie. While I am not in favour of digging up anyone's grave, I do wonder how WW2 is commemorated in Austria. True patriotism means fighting for your country, to build it up, to make it great, to keep it safe from its enemies. Wars of genocide and imperialism do none of these things.

Ostuf Charlemagne
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#29

Post by Ostuf Charlemagne » 31 Aug 2003, 02:16

It is surely more easy for those leftist garbages to fight against a dead man then to fight him alive in the Sky !!!!!!!!!!!

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R.M. Schultz
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#30

Post by R.M. Schultz » 31 Aug 2003, 03:29

Ostuf Charlemagne wrote:It is surely more easy for those leftist garbages to fight against a dead man then to fight him alive in the Sky !!!!!!!!!!!
Just because a man is brave, even heroic, that does not mean that he is a hero worthy of our admiration. The heroes a nation chooses shapes that nation. It is no accident that the same people who viewed Nathan Beford Forrest as a hero enforced racial segregation in the South for one hundred years. If Germany had suppressed the Freikorps after WW1, meted out real punishments to right-wing terrorists (like the assassins of Rathenau), and banned monarchists from holding elective office, then perhaps the catastrophe of the Third Reich could have been avoided. The fact that there is no monument to Hermann Göring in every German town and that even the emblems of Nazism are banned contrasts sharply with this and rather assures one that Germany is not about to embark upon genocidal adventures anytime soon.

Now, I am a Christian and I believe that burying the dead is a cardinal act of charity. While I condemn those who desecrated Nowotny's grave, and certainly do not favor moving him, I feel that the Austrian government probably should take whatever measures are necessary to prevent people from ever viewing Nowotny as a patriot or hero.

As insulting as "leftist garbage" is, it is a much nicer thing to be than a crypto-Nazi.

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