Awardholders / unit

[USAF1986]

Bernd,

I forgot about Schuttwolf. His entry in Scheibert does indeed lack a regiment number. What does Patzwall/Scherzer say about him?

Unfortunately, Alfred Wimmer is not listed as an EBS holder in Scheibert.

Best regards,
Shawn

P.S. I agree 100% with your assessment RE Knoop: His DKiG is listed correctly with the 58. Inf.Div. and should be discounted in the Scheibert addendum list.

[W.Vermeer]

Two questions.

Schuttwolf, Heinz 13.04.1945 H.-Werkmeister Führer le.Kfz.Zug I./Pz.Rgt
In a 1. Pz.Div. review this DKiS recipient was rejected. But he is not listed with another Pz.Div. Is he confirmed with Pz.Rgt. 1 and do I have to add him to 1. PD ?

All I can confirm is that Patzwall/Scherzer places him as Führer 1e Kfz im Zug I. / Panzer-Regiment 1

[W.Vermeer]

The German Cross in Gold for Knoop is clear in my point of view.
225. Inf.Div.
Knoop, [first name not listed], 26.07.1945, Major, I./Gren.Rgt. 377
it is to state firstly that this challenging data set by Scheibert has a typo. Has to read 1944 (there are those cases of presentations and Soldbuch entries in POW camps after 8 May 1945 but I'm sure not in this case). 26.07.1944 is the date of his KC
Knoop, Rolf Dr.med.dent. 26.07.1944 Major Kdr I./Gren.Rgt 377 / 225. Inf.Div.
per a thread search I found our re-check and discussion we had already about his DKiG ; based on that the same man is listed correctly with his DKiG
Knoop, Rolf, 12.09.1942, Oberleutnant, 14./Inf.Rgt. 209 / 58. Inf.Div.
confirmed by Patzwall/Scherzer, DKiG ; confirmed by Scherzer, RKT (same man, RK and DKiG date).

I indeed can agree on this research

[Simon Orchard]

I'd like to put forward a correction for the following DKiG holder

Hptm. d. R. Hans-Eckart Michalsky is listed as Kdr. III./Gren.Rgt. 510, he's listed as such in Scheibert. However it seems to be a typo and should have read 310 of the 163 Inf. Div.

My source is the records of the IIa\IIb 20 Geb.Armee

[USAF1986]

Thanks Simon! Much appreciated!

Best regards,
Shawn

[USAF1986]

Here is an Army Honor Roll Clasp holder from Scheibert that I don’t believe I posted before:

Jungwirt, Hans, 26.01.1943, Hauptmann, I./Jäg.Rgt. “Hermann Göring”

It’s interesting that he is listed with the Army (Heer) EBS holders.

Here is a photo of Jungwirt courtesy Peter H. Note he is displaying the Luftwaffe version of the EBS.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=44067&p=1132004&hilit=jungwirt#p1132004

Best regards,
Shawn

[USAF1986]

Per Scheibert, here are two Luftwaffe Fallschirmjäger officers who received Army (Heer) Honor Roll Clasps:

Bachmann, Helmut, 25.02.1945, Oberst, Fallsch.Jäg.Rgt. 14
Wangerin, Friedrich, 25.08.1944, Hauptmann, III./Fallsch.Jäg.Rgt. 16

Best regards,
Shawn

[W.Vermeer]

I'd like to put forward a correction for the following DKiG holder

Hptm. d. R. Hans-Eckart Michalsky is listed as Kdr. III./Gren.Rgt. 510, he's listed as such in Scheibert. However it seems to be a typo and should have read 310 of the 163 Inf. Div.

My source is the records of the IIa\IIb 20 Geb.Armee

Interesting document, but lets not jump to conclusions here. This document does not per sé have to be the correct dataset also, but it is definitely interesting information.
Some of the dates however are not the awarding dates, but the presentation dates. (f.i. Herlein recieved the DKiG was awarded as Hauptmann on 3rd Januari and received it simultaniously with his promotion the following day I presume.). This is also stated in the heading of the table: "verliehen bzw. verteilt" or "awarded or presented"

[Bernd R]

RE : Wimmer, Alfred, Gren.Rgt. 3 Oberrhein -> EBS not listed for the time being

RE: Schuttwolf, Heinz, DKiS -> added to 1. Pz.Div. [page 44]

When shifting to the new add&corr I have to state that you must have a taste for sections I'm currently preparing, Shawn. In delay and on hold also due to the previous bigger add&corr incl. issues but in preparation are Brigade Ramcke, Rgt. Barenthin and FJR 5/Jäg.Rgt. "HG" DKiG holders. And I'm not through a few details of that North Africa stuff.

Jungwirt is added to Division „General Göring“ / “Hermann Göring” [page 27] ; DKiG done also.

German Cross in Gold
Jungwirt, Hans, 01.04.1943, Hauptmann, I./Jäg.Rgt. "HG"

Honor Roll Clasp
[Heer] Jungwirt, Hans, 26.01.1943, Hauptmann, I./Jäg.Rgt. “HG”
[a late war photo shows him (Major) wearing the Lw version]

let's wait with final comments about the EBS version until we have seen more material about this. I tend to the conclusion that he was named in the "Ehrenblatt des Heeres" (NA circumstances, just happened) and later received the Lw Clasp (or exchanged it with the Heer Clasp if he ever received this one).

Bachmann and Wangerin are added to the FJ section on [page 20]. Of note the status quo of FJR 16 (Ost)

detached (july - sept 1944) :
Fallschirmjäger – Regiment 16 (1 RK + 1 EL)
= Kampfgruppe Oberst Schirmer [Fsch.Jäg.Rgt 16 (Ost)]

Oakleaves
Schirmer, Gerhart 18.11.1944 [657. EL] Oberstleutnant Kdr Fsch.Jäg.Rgt 16 (Ost)
Knight's cross
Wangerin, Friedrich-Wilhelm 24.10.1944 Hauptmann Kdr III./Fsch.Jäg.Rgt 16 (Ost)
Close Combat Clasp in Gold
Richter, Hans-Heinrich, 00.12.1944, Hauptmann, Kp.Fhr im Fsch.Jäg.Rgt. 16 (Ost)
Honor Roll Clasp
[Heer] Wangerin, Friedrich-Wilhelm, 25.08.1944, Hauptmann, III./Fallsch.Jäg.Rgt. 16 (Ost)

assigned :
I. / Fallschirm-Pionier-Regiment 21
Oakleaves
Witzig, Rudolf 25.11.1944 [662. EL] Major Kdr I./Fsch.Pi.Rgt 21

Thanks !
Bernd

[Bernd R]

I have corrected Hans-Eckart Michalsky, DKiG. Added to 163. Inf.Div. [page 19] Second DKiG addition within short time (after the famous Sumpf-Btl. !).
He listing was "double wrong". Made his way from 293. ID to Korps-Abteilung A.

Thanks Simon !

As his award date matches with the date per Scheibert everything is fine here.

Yes, Wilco, when going through the document and comparing it with the thread listings regarding completeness and accuracy it is good to know that some dates denote the award ceremony ("verteilt").

Best regards
Bernd

[Simon Orchard]

I'd like to put forward a correction for the following DKiG holder

Hptm. d. R. Hans-Eckart Michalsky is listed as Kdr. III./Gren.Rgt. 510, he's listed as such in Scheibert. However it seems to be a typo and should have read 310 of the 163 Inf. Div.

My source is the records of the IIa\IIb 20 Geb.Armee

Interesting document, but lets not jump to conclusions here. This document does not per sé have to be the correct dataset also, but it is definitely interesting information.
Some of the dates however are not the awarding dates, but the presentation dates. (f.i. Herlein recieved the DKiG was awarded as Hauptmann on 3rd Januari and received it simultaniously with his promotion the following day I presume.). This is also stated in the heading of the table: "verliehen bzw. verteilt" or "awarded or presented"

You're right, if we're to untangle the mistakes and typos made in both primary and secondary sources then good research and peer review are required which is why the ABR is such a fantastic pooling of resources.

As to Michalsky there is really no doubt

1. If you're going to do a typo, mistaking 5 and 3 is one of the easiest ones to do
2. What's the likelyhood of the armee personnel office getting one of its Btl. commanders wrong?
3. Michalsky was KIA 1.3.45 in the Küstrin area, which is where elements of the 163 ID were fighting that day
4. Gren.Rgt. 510 did not exist by May '44 and III./Gren.Rgt. 510 it seems ceased to exist as such in nov.43
5. Michalsky is named as Oblt. and Chef of 5./Gren.Rgt. 310 as at 14 March 1942 in 'Der weg der 163 Infanterie Division, Bildband' page 133

[Simon Orchard]

I have a potential second case but it requires a bit more digging around.

Hptm. Fritz Pardon, DKiS 13.02.1945 Ic, 210 Inf.Div.

According to the IIa of Armee Abteilung Narvik, Pardon was Ic of A.A. Narvik rather than the 210 ID and i can confirm he was in that job at the war's end, however i need to be able to confirm it prior to the award date. It could well be they're refering to his current position at the time of this Tagesbefehl.

[USAF1986]

Simon,

Good point RE Pardon. On a similar note, Scheibert lists Oberstarzt Dr. Otto Lauer’s DKiS position/unit as Korpsarzt XIX. (Geb.)AK. Although this corps was redesignated Armee-Abteilung Narvik on 25 Nov 1944, it’s seems likely that his award recommendation was submitted under the corps’ previous designation.

Best regards,
Shawn

[Bernd R]

RE: Pardon
One point to take into the pool of research is the relatively long duration of the awarding procedure for the German Cross in Silver. Many months up to a year or more. Obviously the departments and the officers took their time for a decent check. I have it clearly in mind as a fact from the experience with several cases. If requested I will have to look for an example where this time aspect is to see very good. Not that this hint would solve the situation but to support the possibility of referring to his current position as stated by Simon.

Bernd

[Bernd R]

I have compared the 20. Gebirgs-Armee document with the thread lists. All recipients from the document are listed. Vice versa I've not detected an omission in the document going through the recipients of the respective divisions (1.1.-30.6.44). There are ten different dates which are the presentation dates per the document as said. No issues in my point of view.

I noticed one further issue :

Schlack, Johann, 08.06.1944, Oberleutnant d.R., 13./Geb.Jäg.Rgt. 141

as listed with 6. Gebirgs-Division. Per the document it is GJR 143. ??

Bernd