HI guys,
I have a question about this photo. I found it some time ago. It's huge (11 x 8 inches) and super sharp. It shows 153 Luftwaffe men, most of whom wear the para badges and at least 98 of them have visible EK II and 35 EK I, some of them also have the wound badges, SA badges and one wears what looks like the NSFK glider badge.
My questions are: Who are these men? Anyone can ID the outfit? Do any of the officers look familiar? When and where the photo was taken? Anything else you can tell me about the photo?
Thanks for the help...
Clara
Paratrooper photo
Paratrooper photo
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- para2.jpg (143.92 KiB) Viewed 1140 times
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- Para1.jpg (134.39 KiB) Viewed 1140 times
Last edited by lohengrin on 18 Nov 2004, 07:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Revellations
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Dieter Zinke
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You are wrong,Revellations wrote:lohengrin,
The photo has to be post Crete as one of the officers in the front row sitting has a Kreta Cufftitle (correct me if I am wrong)........
this is the Kompanie-Feldwebel, the "Spieß", with his two rows of NCO lace on the sleeves of his jacket.
This is not the "Kreta"-cufftitle.
Oberstab
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Revellations
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Paddy Keating
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Yes, indeed, the bands around the SNCO's sleeve denote his status as Spieß, roughly equivalent to a Company Sergeant Major in British and Commonwealth armies.
Interesting photograph. The fact that quite a few of these paratroopers are wearing the early fliegerbluse, identifiable by the absence of breast eagles, might lead one to presume that this photo was taken in the autumn of 1940 or the spring of 1941, as the trees are still well-covered. The ages of some of the soldiers, around thirty, suggests early days too, before Russia and Italy, when Fallschirmjäger units still contained numbers of prewar regular soldiers.
However, none of the officers in four-pocket tunics are wearing regimental or divisional cuff titles so that probably rules out the first three parachute regiments and the supporting arms within 7. Flieger-Division, who wore the Fallschirm-Division title. Another thing that rules out Fallschirmjäger-Regimenter 1 & 3 is the lack of Army Parachutist Badges worn by former members of the FIK/FIB. One man, far left, second row from the top, could be wearing an Army Para Badge next to his DLV/NSFK glider badge but it could be a trick of pixels from the scanning process. Perhaps you would like to have a look at this, Clara? Is the diving eagle holding a swastika?
The absence of Afrika and Kreta cuff bands places it before 1943, as does the absence of Winter War ribbons. The abundance of EK I and EK II suggests post-Holland. It could also be post-Crete. Quite a few of the men are not jump-trained and some wear the cloth version of the para badge, initially a private purchase item until the parachute schools started issuing it as an interim measure in 1942 so that newly-trained paras had something to wear until their metal badges were sent to them.
So, there are a couple of possibilities. This could be a training unit in Germany, the architecture making France unlikely. However, Fallschirmjäger-Regiment 4 was formed in September 1942 with three battalions. III./FJR4 was formerly III./FJR 2. FJR 4 was posted to the Eastern Front late in 1942. Could this photo show a Fallschirmjäger-Rgt. 4 company from the 3rd Battalion during the regiment's formation and training period late in 1942?
Or could these men be part of Fallschirmjäger-Rgt. 5, formed in May 1942 with two battalions, II and III, from the Luftlande-Sturm-Regiment? II./FJR 5, formerly II./LLSR 1, was sent to North Africa in July 1942, joining the Ramcke Brigade but the rest of the regiment went to France to train from the planned invasion of Malta.
Now, all you need is for one of the serious students of the LLSR 1 or FJR 2 to see a face he knows and you will be closer to the answer. Unfortunately, the webmaster of the other forum where you posted a link to this thread wants people to pay him money for the privilege of showing images to other forum members and you obviously don't want to do that. Why should you? However, the men I am thinking of, Eric Queen and Jean-Yves Nasse, do not frequent this forum. But they can be found on this other Fallschirmjäger-dedicated forum - FJ Forum - so perhaps you should show your photo there too. One or two of the faces look familiar to me and I will have a look through my archives.
PK
Interesting photograph. The fact that quite a few of these paratroopers are wearing the early fliegerbluse, identifiable by the absence of breast eagles, might lead one to presume that this photo was taken in the autumn of 1940 or the spring of 1941, as the trees are still well-covered. The ages of some of the soldiers, around thirty, suggests early days too, before Russia and Italy, when Fallschirmjäger units still contained numbers of prewar regular soldiers.
However, none of the officers in four-pocket tunics are wearing regimental or divisional cuff titles so that probably rules out the first three parachute regiments and the supporting arms within 7. Flieger-Division, who wore the Fallschirm-Division title. Another thing that rules out Fallschirmjäger-Regimenter 1 & 3 is the lack of Army Parachutist Badges worn by former members of the FIK/FIB. One man, far left, second row from the top, could be wearing an Army Para Badge next to his DLV/NSFK glider badge but it could be a trick of pixels from the scanning process. Perhaps you would like to have a look at this, Clara? Is the diving eagle holding a swastika?
The absence of Afrika and Kreta cuff bands places it before 1943, as does the absence of Winter War ribbons. The abundance of EK I and EK II suggests post-Holland. It could also be post-Crete. Quite a few of the men are not jump-trained and some wear the cloth version of the para badge, initially a private purchase item until the parachute schools started issuing it as an interim measure in 1942 so that newly-trained paras had something to wear until their metal badges were sent to them.
So, there are a couple of possibilities. This could be a training unit in Germany, the architecture making France unlikely. However, Fallschirmjäger-Regiment 4 was formed in September 1942 with three battalions. III./FJR4 was formerly III./FJR 2. FJR 4 was posted to the Eastern Front late in 1942. Could this photo show a Fallschirmjäger-Rgt. 4 company from the 3rd Battalion during the regiment's formation and training period late in 1942?
Or could these men be part of Fallschirmjäger-Rgt. 5, formed in May 1942 with two battalions, II and III, from the Luftlande-Sturm-Regiment? II./FJR 5, formerly II./LLSR 1, was sent to North Africa in July 1942, joining the Ramcke Brigade but the rest of the regiment went to France to train from the planned invasion of Malta.
Now, all you need is for one of the serious students of the LLSR 1 or FJR 2 to see a face he knows and you will be closer to the answer. Unfortunately, the webmaster of the other forum where you posted a link to this thread wants people to pay him money for the privilege of showing images to other forum members and you obviously don't want to do that. Why should you? However, the men I am thinking of, Eric Queen and Jean-Yves Nasse, do not frequent this forum. But they can be found on this other Fallschirmjäger-dedicated forum - FJ Forum - so perhaps you should show your photo there too. One or two of the faces look familiar to me and I will have a look through my archives.
PK
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Paddy Keating
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The majority of ribbons visible appear to be EK2 (Iron Cross 2nd Class) although some could be KVK2 (War Merit Cross). The man just behind the Spieß appears to be wearing the ribbon for the Occupation of Czechoslovakia. There are some other ribbon bars but I cannot make them out with these images. Please feel free to send me a high resolution JPEG by e-mail so that I can enlarge the image and give you more information. You can send it to <moderator@NO SPAMnoos.fr>, removing NO SPAM.
PK
PK
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Panzermahn
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I suspected that this photograph was taken after the fallschirmjaeger operation in Holland back in 1940 and maybe before Operation Merkur due to abundance of the Iron Cross 1st and 2nd class and also quite a number of these men wore the glider badge which indeed prove that this photo (i believe was more gliders were used in Fallschirmjäger operation in Holland than in Crete).
Just a question, those men who were sitting at the front rom, were all of them are considered senior NCOs and officers to be allowed the privilege to sit. I notice there is an NCO but might be a junior one, was standing at the middle between the officer and Kompanie-Feldwebel..
anyway, thanks again for these nice photos...
Just a question, those men who were sitting at the front rom, were all of them are considered senior NCOs and officers to be allowed the privilege to sit. I notice there is an NCO but might be a junior one, was standing at the middle between the officer and Kompanie-Feldwebel..
anyway, thanks again for these nice photos...
Last edited by Panzermahn on 20 Nov 2004, 15:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Paddy Keating
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How can you say that it is before Merkur because many men are wearing the EK I and EK II? I don't understand your logic. Nor do I understand the point about gliders. The glider badges you can see in this photograph are for prewar civil gliding activities with the DLV and NSFK and were not awarded for military gliding or gliderborne operations.I suspected that this photograph was taken after the fallschirmjaeger operation in Holland back in 1940 and it's definitely before Operation Merkur due to abundance of the Iron Cross 1st and 2nd class and also quite a number of these men wore the glider badge which indeed prove that this photo (i believe was more gliders were used in Fallschirmjäger operation in Holland than in Crete)
It is true that some glider pilots in Holland and Belgium in 1940 possessed glider pilot licences issued by the Luftwaffe after conversion courses enabling them to fly the DFS 230. It wasn't until after Holland and Belgium that the OKL realised the need for a military Glider Pilot Badge but these were not made and awarded until early in 1941.
PK
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Panzermahn
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Hi Paddy, yeah...i think i'm mistaken about the glider badge...umm...How can you say that it is before Merkur because many men are wearing the EK I and EK II? I don't understand your logic. Nor do I understand the point about gliders. The glider badges you can see in this photograph are for prewar civil gliding activities with the DLV and NSFK and were not awarded for military gliding or gliderborne operations
Anyhow, if it was after operation Merkur, how come there were no Kreta cufftitle awarded to this men...but anyhow, i admit the word definitely which i used is certainly far-fetched...
sorry for the misunderstanding and thanks for the info, Paddy!
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Denise in Florida
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Re: Paratrooper photo
Is there any photo of Battalion 3, Luftlande-Sturm-Regiment 1. My grandfather, Roland Piesk, was killed on March 2, 1942 at Schaikowka. Thank you.