GFM Erwin Rommel

[Dieter Zinke]

The other was later Generalleutnant Ernst Maisel, Chef Amtsgruppe P 2 im HPA (Heerespersonalamt), a KC-holder.

DZ

[Panzermahn]

I've heard two General visited Erwin Rommel the day he was forced to commit suicide. Wilhelm Burgdorf was one of them.
Does anybody know who was the other man?

beforehand I thank,

Roderick

Read David Irving's Trail of the Fox: The life and death of Erwin Rommel, the best biography up to now on Field Marshal Rommel

[Shc]

I've heard two General visited Erwin Rommel the day he was forced to commit suicide. Wilhelm Burgdorf was one of them.
Does anybody know who was the other man?

beforehand I thank,

Roderick

Read David Irving's Trail of the Fox: The life and death of Erwin Rommel, the best biography up to now on Field Marshal Rommel

Hmm.. David Irving??
I'm quite hesitant on that neo-nazi author.

[Panzermahn]

I've heard two General visited Erwin Rommel the day he was forced to commit suicide. Wilhelm Burgdorf was one of them.
Does anybody know who was the other man?

beforehand I thank,

Roderick

Read David Irving's Trail of the Fox: The life and death of Erwin Rommel, the best biography up to now on Field Marshal Rommel

Hmm.. David Irving??
I'm quite hesitant on that neo-nazi author. :x

I read the Trail of the Fox and i had not found a single statement by the author saying that there is no Holocaust..By the way, The Trail of the Fox was quite critical and expose some of the Rommel's myth unlike the biography of Rommel by Desmond Young

[Max Williams]

Before David Irving became political, he was (and probably remains) one of the best researchers and authors on Third Reich history. Don't be put off by his later protestations concerning the holocaust. His historical studies and biographies are excellent reading.
Max.

[Steen Ammentorp]

While I generally don't have any problems whit Irving's biographies on either Rommel or Milch, I wouldn't agree with Panzermahn that it is the best biography on Rommel. I would strongly recommend David Fraser's: Knight's Cross : A Life of Field Marshal Erwin Rommel.

Kind Regards
Steen Ammentorp'
The Generals of World War II

[Larrister]

Ritterkreuztrager Burgdorf as an Oberst saying goodbye to troops.

[Panzermahn]

Before David Irving became political, he was (and probably remains) one of the best researchers and authors on Third Reich history. Don't be put off by his later protestations concerning the holocaust. His historical studies and biographies are excellent reading.
Max.

It's nice to hear that there still objective and unbiased researchers unlike some members of this forum who keep churning out that David Irving is a Nazi, neo-nazi, fascist, anti-semitic just because he wrote books that were politically incorrect..

In fact, Irving's earlier books keep referring the Germans as Nazis (ironic, don't you think?)

[Darren J. Whiteside]

Hello,

While searching for information on Erwin Rommel, I came across a portion of The Trail of the Desert Fox: Rommel Revised by David Irving. The paper was presented to the
Tenth International Revisionist Conference. Here is a portion of what it said:

'During World War I, he was a lieutenant in the German infantry, fighting the Italians in the Alps around Venezia Giulia. He fought very well, but much to his outrage, he found that he wasn't decorated with Germany's highest World War I decoration, the famous Blue Max, the Pour le Merité, the blue enamel cross worn on a ribbon around the neck. Lieutenant Schörner, later Field Marshal Schörner, won the medal, and Rommel thought that he should have got it. Then Rommel did the unthinkable: he appealed. He wrote letters to every successive higher command and headquarters demanding an identical medal for himself. Eventually he got the Pour le Merité in this rather unorthodox way, and he was very proud thereby to join the ranks of legendary heroes of World War I like Ernst Udet, Manfred von Richthofen, and Hermann Göring.'

Has anyone heard this about Rommel before? I wasn't aware that he tried to sell himself as a worthy recipient of the PLM. With everything that has been said recently regarding Irving's ethics, could this be another fabrication to put Rommel in a bad light? What about this conference? Any ideas about it's agenda?. All thoughts on this will be highly welcomed.

Here is the link:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:2l ... 3%A9&hl=en


regards,

Darren

[Alp Guard]

No, I didn't know that. Thank you r for the information. I "googled" through the german internet sites, citing Rommel and the Blue Max. I found the following sentences, written by a person, who does not seem to be a Rommel fan. Be aware of that, please:

"Bereits im ersten Weltkrieg war er stets darauf bedacht, seine Taten ins rechte Licht zu rücken. Schon die Verleihung des Pour le merite ist nicht unumstritten, es gab neben Rommel andere Offiziere, die ähnlich viel Anteil an der Erstürmung des Monte Matajur hatten. Rommel brachte sich persönlich beim württembergischen König für die Auszeichnung in Erinnerung, er wurde von Kriegskameraden ironisch als "scharf auf Orden wie die Elstern auf glitzerndes Metall" beschrieben.(17) Dieser teils ans Profilneurotische grenzende Ehrgeiz und die Sucht, sich in den Vordergrund zu stellen, führte dazu, daß Rommel schon vor dem Zweiten Weltkrieg bei vielen seiner Offizierskameraden nicht gerade beliebt war und oft gemieden wurde."

Rough Translation:

In WWI already, Rommel was eager to put his performance into a positive perspective (for himself). Already the award pour le Mérite was not doubtless. There were other officers beside Rommel, which had similar merits (sic!) at the conquering of Monte Majur. But Rommel personally brought himself to the mind of the King of Würtemberg for the medal. He was described by his own comrades " as gready for glittering metals as a magpie". This profile neurosis was the reason that Rommel was not loved by his comrades, and left alone by them, even before WWII"

Please apologize my poor english.

The source:

http://www.panzerlexikon.de/bio/rommel/rommel.htm

[Steen Ammentorp]

This story is repeated to a certain degree in David Fraser's Knight Cross : A Life of Field Marshal Erwin Rommel (London : Harper Collins, 1993) page 77:

Befor leaving the battalion, he was at last awarded the Pour le Mérite, the medal he had deemed his by right after Matajur…Awarded on 18th December 1917. Rommel afterwards said that he had actually complained at the award of the medal to Schorner after Matajur.

The story is more detailed in Kenneth Macksey's Rommel : Battles and Campaigns (London : Arms & Armoured Press, 1979) page: 18-19:

For the capture of Mrzli a Pour le Mérite was given to a Bavarian Lieutenant, Ferdinand Schörner, while the same coveted decoration was received by a Silesian Lieutenant named Walther Schneider who had actually captured another peak altogether. Rommel's indignation would take years to assuage. The record of his protests includes what amounted to a demand that he should receive the Pour le Mérite as his just reward, plus a determined (and, eventually, successful) campaign after the war to persuade the Official Historian to amend the record by crediting him with the lion's share of the praise.

The problem is of cause that both of these has appeared after the first publication of Irving's Rommel : Trail of the Fox, and with no clear indication of their sources for this story and with Irving's book on their bibliography it is difficult say with certainty that it is true. However I feel confident that at least Fraser in 1993 would not use Irving without some kind of verification.

Although I haven't read it yet I would think that John & Elieen Wilks' book : Rommel and Caporetto (Barnsley, 2001) would be able to shed some light on the story.

Kind Regards
Steen Ammentorp
The Generals of World War II

[Darren J. Whiteside]

Thank you Alp Guard and Steen for your insight, as well as the link. I was thoroughly taken by surprise, as I always believed that a true warrior never begged for awards and recognition, but only was interested in furthering his Army's objectives through self-sacrifice. Modesty was the sign of a gentlemen-soldier, so I am sure that actions such as these would be frowned upon by most. I did read that Manfred von Richthofen actually nominated himself for the Bavarian Military Max Joseph award, but was turned down by the Bavarian authorities, much to his surprise!

Have you guys heard of these International Revisionist Conferences before? They sound a little dangerous to me

regards,

Darren

[Peter H]

General von Below had promised the PLM to the officer who could capture Mount Matajur within 24 hours after the commencement of the offensive.
This is how Schneider got his award,announced the 27 October 1918.Schneider was later killed in action in 1918.

I have some doubts on the feud between Rommel and Schorner in 1917 though.Schorner received the award on the 5 December 1917 for the action at Hill 1114,Rommel on the 10 December 1917.How were both men to know this in October 1917?Rommel's battalion commander Major Theodor Sproesser was also awarded the PLM on the 10 December so retrospectively unit and individual actions were still being looked at.

That link is an offshoot of the Journal of Historical Review,so take it how you like it.

Irving's book(the 1977 edition) does not mention anything about Rommel campaigning for recognition during the months of November/December 1917 except for a written complaint to the Alpenkorps commander(Schneider was on the wrong summit etc).No footnotes are available.Even then Irving conveys Rommel's approach as seeking to right an injustice,and not glory seeking.

Rommel's Infantry Attacks also gives the impression that Rommel had enough on his plate in just campaigning.

[Darren J. Whiteside]

Thanks Peter for sheding some light on the subject. Your explainations seem to vindicate Rommel to a certain extent. The story seems a little more believable now. Maybe there has been a little 'Rommel-bashing' recently, so things may have been read into the actual events of the time.

regards,

Darren

[Steen Ammentorp]

Modesty was the sign of a gentlemen-soldier

This may however not be a trait of those soldiers who rises to the top. Modesty may be an admired human quality but it is not necessarily easily transferred to soldiers. Throughout the years I have been reading a lot on different generals and the behaviour of Rommel is not unique, far from it!

Even the most gentlemen-soldiers the British, i.e. Archibald Wavel who actually asked Churchill to be made a Field Marshal:

Dear Prime Minister, I have never before asked for anything for myself, but I am going to ask you for promotion to the rank of Field Marshal.

Roland Lewin: The Chief : Field Marshal Lord Wavell, Commander-in-Chief and Viceroy, 1939-1947. London : Hutchinson, 1980, p. 207

Should I mention that I don't think any less of him for this? Well I don't

Kind Regards
Steen Ammentorp
The Generals of World War II