21. Panzer-Division, Kommandeur

[Samuel Mitcham]

According to Keilig, Generalmajor Heinz von Randow, the Kdr. of the 21. Panzer-Division, was killed in action on December 21, 1942. Hans-Georg Hildebrandt assumed command on January 1, 1943. Does anyone know who led the division between December 21, 1942 and Jan. 1, 1943?

[Tom Nutter]

Dr. Mitcham, P.Schmitz, et al., DIE DEUTSCHE DIVISIONEN 1939-1945, v.2, identifies Gen.Maj. Kurt Frhr. von Liebenstein as the interim commander of 21.Panzer-Division between the death of Gen.Maj. Heinz von Radow and the accession of Gen.Maj. Hans-Georg Hildebrandt.

Best Regards.

Tom

[Daniel Laurent]

Gentlemen,

I jump on this thread about the 21. PzD with a question: What I know:
The 21. PzD in 1942 had over 50 different softskin types, most of them French, including Citroën, Laffly and Renault trucks as well as Somua French tanks and Hotchkiss French armored vehicles. Logically, French mechanics were needed to maintain them. The 2nd Werkstattkompanie (logistics, reparation) is composed of 230 French volunteers.

Do you have any more details, names, photos, whatever about those French?
Thanks in advance
Regards
Daniel

[Tom Nutter]

Daniel, Jean-Claude Perrigault, in 21. PANZER-DIVISION (Heimdal) indicates that as of 5/6/44, Werkstatt-Kompanie 200 was commanded by Oberleutnant Brunhuber.
At present I am unable to locate further information on the coposition of this unit.
Best regards and Happy New Year.

Tom

[Samuel Mitcham]

Dear Mr. Nutter:
Thank you for that information. Keilig, however, lists von Liebenstein as commander of the 164. Leichte Afrika-Division from Dec 19, 1942 until its surrender. I believe you are right about von Liebenstein serving as acting commander of the 21. PD; however, who commanded the 164. Leichte Afrika-Div. from Dec 21, 1942 until Jan 1, 1943?
Thanks again for your help.
Dr. Sandy Mitcham

[Daniel Laurent]

Daniel, Jean-Claude Perrigault, in 21. PANZER-DIVISION (Heimdal) indicates that as of 5/6/44, Werkstatt-Kompanie 200 was commanded by Oberleutnant Brunhuber.
At present I am unable to locate further information on the coposition of this unit.
Best regards and Happy New Year.
Tom

Thanks, Tom,
Kompanie 200 or 2nd Kompanie?
Happy New Year to everybody here.
Regards
Daniel

[Tom Nutter]

Daniel, I double-checked. The specific language that Perrigault uses (at p. 497) is "Werkstatt-Kompanie (mot) 200 (Oberleutnant Brunhuber)."
Best regards and Happy New Year.
Tom

[Tom Nutter]

Dr. Mitcham, I checked further and the only other reference that I can find at present is contained in Wolf Heckmann's ROMMEL'S WAR IN AFRICA (p. 345) wherein he refers to "General C.H. (sic) Lungershausen" as the commander of 164th Light Division. However, I see that in HITLER'S LEGIONS you have this man listed as well, and you indicate that he was not in command at the capitulation, so I presume that this is not our man.
Kind regards.
Tom

[genstab]

Tom,
Bradley also lists von Liebenstein as Kdr. 164. Leichte Div, from 12.12.43 (Führer), appointed Div.Kdr. on 1.3.43, all the way to capitulation 12.05.1943. It's possible he could also have been acting at 21. Panzer- similar instances of one man temporarily commanding two divisions or remnants in battle situations abound- but I don't have any record of it either.
Happy New Year!
Bill McCroden
Genstab in Oregon

[Tom Nutter]

Bill, I looked on Axis Biographical Research; both Hildebrandt and von Liebenstein advanced to the grade of Oberst on 1 February 1942. von Liebenstein became a GM on 1 March 1943 and Hildebrandt on 1 April 1945. I checked this out because another source that I have (David Westwood's set of 3 CDs on the Wehrmacht and SS) and David shows Oberst Hildebrandt in "temporary" command of 21. Panzer-Division on 1 January 1943, and Oberst von Liebenstein in command of 164. Leichte Divsion on the same date. This information, along with the information from Schmitz, tends to support your suggestion that Oberst von Liebenstein commanded both 21. Panzer-Division and 164. Leichte Division for a brief period, although without something more definitive it is difficult to be certain.

Kind regards.
Tom

[genstab]

Tom,
Hans-Georg Hildebrandt was promoted to GenMaj on 01.03.1943 and GenLt on 20.08.1944. Someone was pretty far off with his promotion dates- or could they have mixed him up with Werner von Hildebrandt?
Another mystery surfaces though - according to Bradley, Hildebrandt was sick from 01.03.1943 to 15.03.1943; who was acting commander then?
Hey, if you have "Die Deutschen Divisionen" and I have Tessin and Bradley (as well ads "Die Geheimen Tagesberichte"), we can help each other out once in a while. Everyone on the Forum will benefit from that.
Best,
Genstab

[Tom Nutter]

Bill, I caused the confusion between Werner and Hans-Georg. What threw me was that they were both General der Panzertruppe. I attribute this error to having celebrated the New Year too well last evening! LOL.
I am also fortunate to have both Tessin and the GEHEIME TAGESBERICHTE. The KRIEGSTAGEBUCH DES OKW and DIE BERICHTE DES OBERKOMMANDOS DER WEHRMACHT 1939-1945 were also available inexpensively, so I obtained those as well. I have a few other things too, so I hope to be able to help out as best I can.
Best regards.
Tom

[genstab]

Tom,
Yeah, I know about that celebrating - I got rid of a mag of lambrusco yesterday but it was the holiday food that almost killed me - I have one more day's worth to dispose of if I can jam it down. I feel like a trash compactor.
What's "Die Berichte des Oberkommandos der Wehrmacht"? I don't know anything about that one. Maybe it'd help me out. I do have the KTB-OKW in paperback- inexpensive as you said. So all you don't have is Bradley (the 7 volumes published so far thru L anyway)? Is Schmitz really detailed with division commanders' names and dates? If so, I could list a few for which I don't have commanders at certain times and shoot you a PM with them if you have time to help me.
Best,
Bill

[Tom Nutter]

Bill, of Schmitz I have at present only divisions 11 - 25 inclusive, but if you have inquiries about any of those, just send me a note. For each division there is information on the commander and Ia; also maps, gliederung, einsatz und unterstellung, winners of major awards, etc. The maps actually swallow up most of the volumes. Obviously, I have plans to acquire more of the set.
DIE BERICHTE DES OBERKOMMANDOS DER WEHRMACHT is a 5 volume set that comprises the daily reports issuing from OKW and intended for public consumption. They include registers for places, individuals and units. This set obviously has its limitations, but it was very inexpensive and can be used as another source for confirming information, dates, etc.
I'll be glad to help if I can.
Regards.
Tom

[genstab]

Tom,
If Die Berichte des OKW was issued during wartime I wouldn't think there'd be much O/B or commander info in it I could use. That stuff was all a military secret. Or are you saying it was issued AFTER the war and made up of OKW bulletins verbatim, secret movements, O/Bs and all?

Best,
Bill