Karl Strecker (for Dieter Zinke)

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adalberto
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Karl Strecker (for Dieter Zinke)

#1

Post by adalberto » 18 Feb 2006, 05:19

Hello Dieter,

Whats the final rank of Karl Strecker ??
i found conflicting informations in many sites.
He was GdI or GO ??
Do you have the promotions dates and assignments also ?
Thx in advance

Adalberto

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Dieter Zinke
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#2

Post by Dieter Zinke » 18 Feb 2006, 11:30

01.02.1943 Generaloberst (mit RDA vom 01.01.1943)
Seine Beförderung zum Generaloberst wird noch beantragt, ist aber vor der Kapitulation der 6. Armee am 01.02.1943 nicht mehr amtlich ausgesprochen worden. Sie wird am 02.02.1943 per Radiomeldung übermittelt und ihm viel später dienstlich in der Kriegsgefangenschaft durch Generalfeldmarschall Paulus eröffnet.

Source:
Manuskript zu Karl Strecker in “Die Generale des Heeres 1921-1945“, bisher 7 Bände, Biblio Verlag Bissendorf

He was applied for promotion to Generaloberst before the surrender, but this was not effective officially before the capitulation. Published via radio transmission not before 02.02.1943. Paulus announced him the fact in captivity officially.

See also the different statements of our members Vienna (pro) and Stauffenberg II (contra) concerning the promotion.

Dieter Z.


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#3

Post by Stauffenberg II » 18 Feb 2006, 12:20

Good morning!

I would like to tell you the reason why I am contra. I have once read a statement by one of our fellow members, Ken Mc Canliss that in fact it is not possible that Strecker was promoted to Gen. Oberst. It´s not possible because Keilig found the official 01.05.1944 Rangliste (ranklist) of the German Army (Heer) with additions mostly up to January 1945, published as "Rangliste des Heeres 1944/45". In this list which is "wortgetreu wiedergegeben" (verbatim quoted) by the editor all Generaloberste as per as 01.05.1944 are listed as well as further promotions up to 05/1945 (Frießner, Raus, Hilpert).

One can clearly see: Strecker is not mentioned being a Generaloberst as per as 01.05.1944 in the official papers of the Personalamt (PA), although Heitz is duly noted. Strecker is listed as Gen. d. Inf. as per as 01.05.1944.

Jürgen
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Dieter Zinke
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#4

Post by Dieter Zinke » 18 Feb 2006, 14:50

Jürgen, I know this fact. But you also have to respect the following supplements by
Dr. Gerd F. Heuer (Landser-Magazin many years ago and "Die Generalobersten des Heeres. Inhaber höchster deutscher Kommandostellen 1933 - 1945". Verlag Arthur Moewig, Rastatt 1988),
Walther von Seydlitz "Stalingrad. Konflikt und Konsequenz", Stalling / Oldenburg, 1977, and
Gerd R. Ueberschär: "Das Nationalkomiitee 'Freies Deutschland' und der Bund Deutscher Offiziere", Fischer, Frankfurt a.M., 1996

Dieter
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#5

Post by Stauffenberg II » 18 Feb 2006, 16:19

Hi Dieter!

I know both sources and I am a Landser reader too :) but Dr. Heuer himself stated that there is not a single offical evidence.:cry:

Furthermore I refuse to think that in a well organised armed forces system especially in the german one a promotion to 4-Star-General would not have been a well documentated procedure (even considering difficult circumstances in Stalingrad). Could well be that the 01.05.1944 rank list includes mistakes (it does indeed!!!) but most probably not in the 4-star-generals-section.

Yours respectfully!
Jürgen

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#6

Post by adalberto » 19 Feb 2006, 01:54

Hello Guys,

Thx for the infos, but im continue confused , hard to say who is right :D

Adalberto

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#7

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 19 Feb 2006, 13:59

Well , if this promotion isn't mentioned in the official "Rangliste" anyway I would tend to say that this promotion "fernmündlich" was not official , too . So , "General der Infanterie" in my opinion ...

Jan-Hendrik

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#8

Post by Jeremy Dixon » 19 Feb 2006, 15:00

Strecker was promoted to Generaloberst, details in Die Generale des Heeres by Keilig, also in "Die Generalobersten des Heeres" by Dr. Gerd F. Heuer - states he was told via radio mesage but cannot be confirmed.

Seems to depend on what book you pick up. If Paulus can be told days before his surrender that he has been promoted to GFM then why not Strecker? I think that indeed he was promoted to Generaloberst and the fact that he was a pro-Nazi general would go in this favour.

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#9

Post by genstab » 19 Feb 2006, 16:36

Stauffenberg II wrote: Furthermore I refuse to think that in a well organised armed forces system especially in the german one
well organized? You must never have tried to figure out from the German records what general (or Oberst) was commanding which division at what time! They were abysmal record keepers- recording a commander as being in command at a unit from the date of appointment while he was on leave or enroute actross Europe. And this went on all through the war, not just in crisis periods.

Best Regards,
Genstab

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Dieter Zinke
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think better of it

#10

Post by Dieter Zinke » 19 Feb 2006, 18:48

Paulus was a meticulous Prussian in military correctness. Look at his request for his own marshal shoulder boards even in his captivity.
And when he officially communicated the promotion to Strecker he never would have done this without any military certification according the rules.

Hitler was dissappointed expecting a living Feldmarschall would never capitulate. But Paulus refused the suicide.

In July 1943 the Nationalkomitee Freies Deutschland (NKFD) was built, in September 1943 the Bund Deutscher Offiziere (BDO) was founded.

The Reichskriegsanwalt made inquiries since 1943 against several officers, accused to be members of these associations because of “Kriegsverrat”.
Walther von Seydlitz-Kurzbach was sentenced to death by the Reichskriegsgericht on 26.04.1944.

The Keilig-Rangliste is from 01.05.1944.
The promotions of Paulus and Heitz were still announced officially before the surrender and wellknown in public.
Why should the Rangliste from 01.05.1944 subsequently acknowledge the former inofficial promotion of Strecker after all these circumstances being valued as high treason ??!!

Sincerely
Dieter Z.

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#11

Post by Stauffenberg II » 19 Feb 2006, 20:36

genstab wrote:
Stauffenberg II wrote: Furthermore I refuse to think that in a well organised armed forces system especially in the german one
well organized? You must never have tried to figure out from the German records what general (or Oberst) was commanding which division at what time! They were abysmal record keepers- recording a commander as being in command at a unit from the date of appointment while he was on leave or enroute actross Europe. And this went on all through the war, not just in crisis periods.

Best Regards,
Genstab
Bill,

Please take into consideration that my above quote was referring to 4-Star-Generals only. That apart I heartily second you.

Yours,
Jürgen

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#12

Post by genstab » 19 Feb 2006, 21:00

Oh- sorry, Jurgen,

Best regards,
Bill/Genstab

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#13

Post by Stauffenberg II » 20 Feb 2006, 21:57

Not a problem Bill. I enjoy every thread/discussion in which you take part.

Yours!

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#14

Post by genstab » 20 Feb 2006, 22:01

Aw shucks- hang in there, kamerad.

Best,
Genstab

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Dieter Zinke
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#15

Post by Dieter Zinke » 27 Apr 2006, 12:28

The mystery is solved. Look at the pic

courtesy of Günter Wegmann, Biblio-Verlag

Dieter Z. :D
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