Josef "Sepp" Dorsch and the Ulrichsberg Veteran Meeting

[Hecht]

I hope this thread is not locked. I'm not taking sides, but I think the discussion is very interesting and Hecht has made some valid points. Dieter's links must also be considered, but I agree they cannot be treated as academic sources and are therefore not facts. I'm interested to see how the two differing interpretations of the laws are resolved. Please continue.
Max.

Max,

I do respect a lot Dieter and Marcus, and must be clear that I don't take sides also, I actually very rarely do, I cannot stand neonazi brainless, but label the Ulrichsberg simply as "Nazi" is something you cannot take seriously IMHO.
The Austrian Bundesheer attended the meeting for something like 20 years, before stop in 2009 due to the presence of few neonazi retards: so, this mean that for almost 20 years the meeting was considered not "Nazi" at all, and it still does, since the meeting is totally legal and wasn't banned in any case.
Don't forget that the Bundesheer put a denkmal-named plate at the memorial site at Ulrichsberg, nextby the WSS and FJ ones.
I must also remember that numbers of personalities from the local and general Austrian Government attended the meeting for years, and still does, and we are not talking about right-wing politicians only, but from all sides: for example the Präsident der Ulrichsberg-Gemeinschaft was Rudolf Gallob, a former Social Democratic (SPÖ) deputy governor of Carinthia, and label him as "Nazi" tout court is simple unacceptable for a serious researcher.

I also have to say that I couldn't see any pictures related to the Ulrichsberg where to spot any swastika flag, swastika patch, swastika pin or else, so, it may be considered a meeting attended by WWII veterans and few right-wing\neonazis idiots, but sure not a "Nazi and Illegal" event, since it is organized by organizations recognized\supported by the Austrian Government and the Austrian Police.

[Dieter Zinke]

I’m glad to see the fruitful discussion encouraged by my admittedly provoking statements and links.
I do not intend to lock the change of views immediately.

I only want to point out that already when I was a student fifty years ago the Ulrichsberg-meetings were a synonym for revisionism and Neo-Nazism.
By now, you can be assured that my thinking about these formative experiences determines my action.

Dieter Z.

[Hecht]

I’m glad to see the fruitful discussion encouraged by my admittedly provoking statements and links.
I do not intend to lock the change of views immediately.

I only want to point out that already when I was a student fifty years ago the Ulrichsberg-meetings were a synonym for revisionism and Neo-Nazism.
By now, you can be assured that my thinking about these formative experiences determines my action.

Dieter Z.

Dieter,

You know I respect you, but did not look "provoking" to me, or, at least, I don't personally use ! while I'm just joking\provoking.
Sorry to notice that "synonym" of revisionism and neo-nazi is not an academic source I would rely on.
Are you saying that the Austrian Authorities attending the meeting are Neo-Nazi and Revisionists?
If positive, please produce reliable source for that claim.

Standing to your point of view any vet-meeting and any place where some neo-nazi retard would eventually show up should be considered a "Nazi" event tout-court: we got plenty of brainless skinheads in UK attending football matches, does this mean that I'm also a Nazi since I do attend the matches as well?

Gratuitous nonsense IMHO.

[Dieter Zinke]

Are you saying that the Austrian Authorities attending the meeting are Neo-Nazi and Revisionists?

By no means, I never spoke from Austrian Authorities - I only want to recall
the serious side effects for years !!
Because more than ever it's essential : Give him an inch and he will take an ell !
It is difficult to touch the mud without getting the hands dirty !!

Dieter Z.

[Hecht]

Ok let's drop it, we going nowhere here.

[history1]

[...]
Don't forget that the Bundesheer put a denkmal-named plate at the memorial site at Ulrichsberg, nextby the WSS and FJ ones.

Yes, and now the Bundesheer (word inserted at 7p.m.) will change the plate to an other memorial on this hill, presumarly Red Cross memorial.

I must also remember that numbers of personalities from the local and general Austrian Government attended the meeting for years, and still does, and we are not talking about right-wing politicians only

Mostly party members from FPÖ and BZÖ (former part of FPÖ), well known in Austria for preaching their xenophobic bu......t.

for example the Präsident der Ulrichsberg-Gemeinschaft was Rudolf Gallob, a former Social Democratic (SPÖ) deputy governor of Carinthia, and label him as "Nazi" tout court is simple unacceptable for a serious researcher.

You didn´t read much about politics in Austria after WWII.

since it is organized by organizations recognized\supported by the Austrian Government and the Austrian Police.

Realy? The meeting is organised by a private association called "Ulrichsberggemeinschaft", with help of local carynthian politicans.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulrichsberggemeinschaft
Neither the Austrian Government nor Austrian Police is supporting them in any way!
The chairman of the Austrian Fellowship Federation (Österreichischer Kameradschaftsbund) of former WWII soldiers clearly states their absence on those meetings: "Wir gedenken sicher nicht eines verbrecherischen Regimes, das unseliges Leid über die Menschheit gebracht hat." = We for sure don´t commemorate an outraging regime which brought disastrous suffering to the mankind.
http://kaernten.orf.at/stories/222110/

Oh, I read about the support you mention Hecht:

SPÖ Defence Minister Norbert Darabos had announced that the Austrian military would not formally support the meeting as it had done until now because of "insufficient exclusion of the National Socialist mindset."

Another blow to the organisers was Carinthian Alliance for the Future of Austria (BZÖ) Governor Gerhard Dörfler’s decision to boycott the meeting.

Source: http://www.austriantimes.at/?id=16098&print=1

[Dieter Zinke]

history1
Das war wie “Ziethen aus dem Busch“ !!

Many thanks for fighting the exonerating and finally deciding battle.
It is the win of the better arguments based on a clear, precise and unequivocal evidence.

Dieter Z.

[Hecht]

history1
Das war wie “Ziethen aus dem Busch“ !!

Many thanks for fighting the exonerating and finally deciding battle.
It is the win of the better arguments based on a clear, precise and unequivocal evidence.

Dieter Z.

Yeah, sure. :roll:
I wonder why didn't you "win" by yourself the "exonerating" battle, instead waiting for History1 to gather some "realiable" newspapers infos on the net, since he is not even noticed of how the things are going on there (By the way, standing to his posts I wonder if he is even noticed of any other historical matter in general , but this is just my opinion).
IMHO this way to conduct research is a shame for this respected forum: again, I will drop it, we don't go nowhere here.

[Jan-Hendrik]

Well, everybody here knows that our austrian brothers have their own way to access history...they try to do everything 110%



Jan-Hendrik

[Scratchit]

Sorry fellow`s,i have just read this and have to sa ,Does it really matter now?.It is now 2013 and most of these veterans are now dead and gone,i have the greatest respect for all soldiers of both world wars who fought for their countries to the best of their abilities.I must say though that everyone assumes that all members of the SS were camp guards and so all of them become tarred with the same brush.WE know that this IS NOT TRUE but it will always be associated that way.These men gave their lives,yes ,some were war criminals and ba****ds but it was a long time ago and will eventually be forgotten.As far as i`m concerned as long as no swastika or Nazi symbols are used its just veterans paying their respects to lost comrades and should have NO POLITICAL AFFILIATION.AS far as i can see,they are all soldiers who died for their countries and should be remembered as such.

[AvB]

"It's a long time ago". Bad argument for these kind of crimes.

Anyway, apart from the discussion whether the Ulrichsberg gathering is legal or not, I was suprised that the Bandenkampfabzeichen has a 57 edition because this not an award for fighting regular troops but 'terrorists' behind the lines.