LSSAH Strength return for Feb/March 1943

[stoveb]

Hi guys,

I'm trying to work out the exact composition of the Panzer Regiment at this moment in time, and in particular the exact number of Panzer IIIs available and authorised.

Does someone have a strength report from this period, with the complete Soll/Ist/etc numbers?

Many thanks
Steve

[michalst]

Hi. I don't if it would help but 1. of July 1943 LSSAH had the following panzer strength (just before the "Zitadelle"):
PzKpfw II : 4
PzKpfw III L/42 : 3
PzKpfw III L/60 : 10
PzKpfw IV L/48 : 67
PzKpfw VI : 13
PzBfWg III : 9

[stoveb]

Hi there,

Thanks for that, but I already have quite a lot of detail for the next section of my research, Kursk. It is the Kharkov period that seems to be causing me problems. Too few photos out there...

Cheers
Steve

[Qvist]

As far as I understand from people who have worked with this far more thoroughly than I, it is difficult to find this type of reports from SS-PZK during exactly this period.

cheers

[Epaminondas]

Nipe's Last Victory in Russia makes frequent comments about the status of the various panzer units involved in third Kharkov... a close reading would probably net the operational figures for a few days.

[stoveb]

Thanks guys,

It seems that this is a bigger problem area than I thought...

There are operational figures available - Dugdale's book on Normandy gives figures for the unit throughtout its operations - but I'm not sure of his sources).

Does anyone have an earlier report, Jan 43, Dec, Nov, Oct 42?

Still need to find out the 'soll' numbers, especially for the Panzer IIIs

Thanks
Steve

[Mark V.]

Hi Steve!

You mean something like this?

From Jentz Panzertruppe Vol.2:

February 1943:
12 Pz.II
10 Pz.III (lg.)
52 Pz.IV (lg.)
9 Pz.VI
9 Pz.Bef.

See also a similar discussion on Feldgrau:

Hi,
during Kharkov-battle 1.SS-PzR was organized as follows:

-Stab
-I.Abt:
- Stab, StbKp
- 1., 2., 3.Kp
- le.Panz.Nachsch.Kol
-II.Abt:
- Stab, StbKp
- 5., 6., 7.Kp
- le.Panz.Nachsch.Kol
-(4.)sPzKp
-PzWerkKp
-PiKp(gep.)

The original OoB(early'43) which I have in my possession
gives no details about the actual oraganization of each
company. Since the Stab/PzR had no own StbKp i believe
that a PzAufklZug and a PzNaZug were attached to it.
No FlaZug is mentioned and I'm almost sure that the
Regiment was not authorized to have such unit during
Kharkov battle.

Kamen

http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=490

[stoveb]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for that, but this is also informaiton that I have already. What I really need is the 'Soll' numbers for this period.

To make things clearer I will share what I have so far. In my theoretical 'formation' I have the following number of vehicles (so far)

Panzer II - 12
Panzer III (lg) - 15
Panzer IV (lg) - 60
Panzer VI - 10
Befehlspanzer - 9

My structure is as follows below. With these areas of difficulty;

1) number of Regiment Stab vehicles (is there an 050 or 060?)
2) Numbering and composition of I Abteilung Stab - is it really 155, 156, etc?
3) Amount of Panzer IIIs in 4th Kompanie?
4) Exact numbering of Tigers and Panzer IIIs in 4th Kompanie?

Kharkov period

Regiment / Stab
Nachrichten Zug
055 Befehlspanzer III Ausf J Williamson
054 Befehlspanzer III Ausf J Williamson, Handbook of Waffen SS
053 Befehlspanzer III Ausf J Photo from ebay
052 Befehlspanzer III Ausf J?
051 Befehlspanzer III Ausf J Williamson
050? Panzer II Ausf F?

Aufklärung Zug
065 Panzer II Ausf F?
064 Panzer II Ausf F Ballantyne
063 Panzer II Ausf F?
062 Panzer II Ausf F Ballantyne
061 Panzer III Ausf L Restayn, Kharkov
060? Panzer II Ausf F?

1st Abteilung Stab
155 Panzer III Ausf J?
156 Panzer III Ausf J?
157 Panzer II Ausf F?
158 Panzer II Ausf F?
159 Panzer II Ausf F?

1st Kompanie Stab
105 Panzer IV Ausf G
104 Panzer IV Ausf G

1/ 1st Zug
115 Panzer IV Ausf G
116 Panzer IV Ausf G
117 Panzer IV Ausf G
118 Panzer IV Ausf G

1/ 2nd Zug
125 Panzer IV Ausf G
126 Panzer IV Ausf G
127 Panzer IV Ausf G Restayn, pg 127
128 Panzer IV Ausf G


2nd Kompanie Stab
205 Panzer IV Ausf G Restayn, pg 137
204 Panzer IV Ausf G

2/ 1st Zug
215 Panzer IV Ausf G Lehmann "Im Bild"
216 Panzer IV Ausf G Lehmann "Im Bild"
217 Panzer IV Ausf G Schweigen, pg 312
218 Panzer IV Ausf G

2/ 2nd Zug
225 Panzer IV Ausf G Restayn, pg 132
226 Panzer IV Ausf G MNZS
227 Panzer IV Ausf G
228 Panzer IV Ausf G Restayn, pg 133

3rd Kompanie Stab
305 Panzer IV Ausf G
304 Panzer IV Ausf G

3/ 1st Zug
315 Panzer IV Ausf G
316 Panzer IV Ausf G
317 Panzer IV Ausf G
318 Panzer IV Ausf G

3/ 2nd Zug
325 Panzer IV Ausf G
326 Panzer IV Ausf G
327 Panzer IV Ausf G
328 Panzer IV Ausf G

4th Kompanie (s) Stab
405 Tiger I Ausf E Agte 101, pg 54-56
404 Panzer III Ausf L?

4/1st Zug
411 Tiger I Ausf E Agte 101, pg 62
412 Tiger I Ausf E
413 Tiger I Ausf E
414 Panzer III Ausf L?
415 Panzer III Ausf L?
416 Panzer III Ausf L?

4/2nd Zug
421 Tiger I Ausf E
422 Tiger I Ausf E
423 Panzer III Ausf L?
424 Tiger I Ausf E Yerger, "Images of the Waffen SS"
425 Panzer III Ausf L Agte, 101 - possibly 4th Kompanie, pre Kursk
426 Panzer III Ausf L?

4/3rd Zug
431 Tiger I Ausf E
432 Tiger I Ausf E
433 Tiger I Ausf E
434 Panzer III Ausf L?
435 Panzer III Ausf L?
436 Panzer III Ausf L?

4/le Zug
4L1 Panzer III Ausf L
4L2 Panzer III Ausf L
4L3 Panzer III Ausf L
4L4 Panzer III Ausf L
4L5 Panzer III Ausf L


2nd Abteilung Stab
555 Panzer III Ausf J Platz Der Leibstandarte, pg 156
556 Panzer III Ausf J Platz Der Leibstandarte, pg 191
557 Panzer II Ausf F Platz Der Leibstandarte, pg 192
558 Panzer II Ausf F Platz Der Leibstandarte, pg 192
559 Panzer II Ausf F Platz Der Leibstandarte, pg 209

5th Kompanie Stab
505 Panzer IV Ausf G
504 Panzer IV Ausf G

5/ 1st Zug
515 Panzer IV Ausf G
516 Panzer IV Ausf G
517 Panzer IV Ausf G
518 Panzer IV Ausf G

5/ 2nd Zug
525 Panzer IV Ausf G Restayn, pg 278
526 Panzer IV Ausf G
527 Panzer IV Ausf G
528 Panzer IV Ausf G KO'd Kharkov, Nipe


6th Kompanie Stab
605 Panzer IV Ausf G Restayn, pg 278
604 Panzer IV Ausf G Restayn, pg 114

6/ 1st Zug
615 Panzer IV Ausf G Agte, 101
616 Panzer IV Ausf G
617 Panzer IV Ausf G
618 Panzer IV Ausf G Nipe

6/ 2nd Zug
625 Panzer IV Ausf G Restayn, pg 278, probably this number
626 Panzer IV Ausf G Restayn, pg 129
627 Panzer IV Ausf G
628 Panzer IV Ausf G Restayn, pg 127

7th Kompanie Stab
705 Panzer IV Ausf G
704 Panzer IV Ausf G Kharkov, After the Battle

7/ 1st Zug
715 Panzer IV Ausf G
716 Panzer IV Ausf G Merefa, Tiemann
717 Panzer IV Ausf G
718 Panzer IV Ausf G KO'd, Merefa, Tiemann

7/ 2nd Zug
725 Panzer IV Ausf G Probably under command of Stollmayer, KO'd in Red Square, Tiemann.
726 Panzer IV Ausf G Merefa & Kharkov, Tiemann
727 Panzer IV Ausf G Merefa, sunk up to its turret in swamp, Tiemann, 33
728 Panzer IV Ausf G Kharkov, After the Battle

[FRANCY RITTER]

Hello to all

727 Panzer IV Ausf G Merefa, sunk up to its turret in swamp, Tiemann, 33

Photos from an old ebay auction on Panzer IV Ausf G number 727

[IMW]

Guys,

Panzerlage for L.A.H, 31.12.42, 15.1.43 and 28.2.43. I've given Iststarke first followed by the operational figures.

Stand 31.12.42-Ist, 12 Pz II operational 12, 19 Pz III operational 14, Pz IV 77 operational 30, no Tigers reported on hand.
Stand 15.1.43, same as above.
Stand 28.2.43-Ist, 12 Pz II operational 9, 14 Pz III operational 12, 52 Pz IV operational 46, 9 Pz VI operational 7.
Stand 5.3.43-Ist 11 Pz II, operational 10, 10 Pz III operational 7, 46 Pz IV operational 35, 9 Pz VI operational 8.
Stand 31.3.43-Ist 11Pz II operational 11, 17 Pz III operational 15, 41 Pz IV operational 28, 5 Pz VI operational.

Mike.

[stoveb]

Hi Mike,

This is REALLY interesting!

I have recently changed some of my views of the exact make up of the 4th Kompanie during this period with new information.

Your Ist totals are very interesting, could you please tell me where they come from?

Thanks
Steve