78. Sturm-Division before Operation Bagration

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Der Alte Fritz
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78. Sturm-Division before Operation Bagration

#1

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 27 Mar 2010, 01:38

There are several threads about 78th Sturm but none that give a definitive OOB for 22nd June 1944 just before the Division faced it's greatest threat.
Can anyone post a good OOB for this date
thanks

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Piet Duits
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Re: 78th Sturm Division before Operation Bagration

#2

Post by Piet Duits » 27 Mar 2010, 20:18

Something like this? It's the best you'll probably can get :-)
The source is BAMA RH 20-4-552.
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78. Sturm (1.6.1944).jpg
78. Sturm (1.6.1944).jpg (62.12 KiB) Viewed 2946 times


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Re: 78th Sturm Division before Operation Bagration

#3

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 27 Mar 2010, 21:07

Yes this is ideal but at slightly too low resolution to read. Any chance you could email me a higher resolution one? Assume it is from Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv but would not know the first thing about getting any records from there, Public Records Office Kew is about my limit.
Thanks

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Re: 78th Sturm Division before Operation Bagration

#4

Post by Bob_Mackenzie » 31 Mar 2010, 18:32

The Imperial War Museum holds the UK collection of German records. You might be able to get a copy from them

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Re: 78th Sturm Division before Operation Bagration

#5

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 31 Mar 2010, 19:40

Thank you but Piet has emailed a higher res copy that I can now read easily.

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Re: 78th Sturm Division before Operation Bagration

#6

Post by marthus » 31 Mar 2010, 19:54

hello

couldn't one have it on the site, if it is in large size?

thank you

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Re: 78th Sturm Division before Operation Bagration

#7

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 02 Apr 2010, 14:31

No I can never make photo bucket or those other sites work for me. But here it is in written form:
78th Sturm Division:
Sturm Regts 14, 195 and 215:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Sturmregiment:
2 Sturm battalions (Kompanies 1-4 and 5-8)
1st Kompanie (Sturm) 309 men, 2 HMG, 6 LMG, 2 x 82mm mortars
2nd and 3rd Kompanie as above
4th Kompanie (Support) 7 x 82mm mortars, 9 x HMG 4 x 20mm Flak

13th Kompanie (Schwere) 2 x150 Infantry Gun 4 x 75 IG
14th Kompanie (PzJg) 9 x 75mm PAK
15th Kompanie (Pionere) 2 x HMG 9 x LMG 6 smoke generators

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Artillery Regt 178
----------------------------------------------------------------
3 Abt each 3 batteries of four 105mm howitzers and
1 Abt of 3 battery of four 155mm howitzers
(36 105mm and 12 155mm)
---------------------------------------------------------------
PzJg Abt 178 (2 Kompanie each 9 x Marder II and 2 x 88mm AT guns)

Pioniere Bn 178 (2 Kompanie Pionier, each 1 HMG 6 LMG 1 x 82mm mortar)

Brk Sturm Bn 78 (1-3 Kompanie 2 HMG, 11 LMG, 2 x 82mm and 2 x 50mm mortar)(4th Kompanie 2 HMG, 8 LMG 4 x120mm moratr and 2 x 20mm AA)

Schwere Granat Werfer Bn 5 (motor) 2 batteries each 12 x 120mm mortar

Flak Abt 178 2 schwere batteries each 8 x 88mm Flak and 3 x 20mm Flak and 1 medium battery of 11 x 20mm flak

StuG Abt 189 (31 StuGIIIG) 27 available on 22/6/44

Felders Bn 178 (replacement Bn)

Nebelwerfer Abt 178 (not on organisation chart 1/6/44)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
attached units:
Schwere Flak Abt 293 (2 battery 88mm plus 20mm Flak)
Sturm Bn (AOK4)
Pionere Bn 752 (AOK Reserve)
Pz Auf Abt 125 (25th Pz Gr Div)
Grenadier Regt 480 (260 Inf Div)
Fusilier Battalion 260 (260 Inf Div)
III/Sich Bn (286 Security Division)

This is a great unit with some really exotic OOB in 1943 but by 1944 it was becoming more like a standard infantry division albeit a strong and well equipped one.

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Re: 78th Sturm Division before Operation Bagration

#8

Post by marthus » 05 Apr 2010, 09:37

thank you for these very interesting detail

Alain

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Re: 78th Sturm Division before Operation Bagration

#9

Post by chinapzw » 15 Apr 2010, 17:06

Can you tell us 78th Sturm Division operations in the buffalo's role?

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Re: 78th Sturm Division before Operation Bagration

#10

Post by Kelvin » 25 Apr 2010, 18:30

Der Alte Fritz wrote:No I can never make photo bucket or those other sites work for me. But here it is in written form:
78th Sturm Division:
Sturm Regts 14, 195 and 215:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Sturmregiment:
2 Sturm battalions (Kompanies 1-4 and 5-8)
1st Kompanie (Sturm) 309 men, 2 HMG, 6 LMG, 2 x 82mm mortars
2nd and 3rd Kompanie as above
4th Kompanie (Support) 7 x 82mm mortars, 9 x HMG 4 x 20mm Flak

13th Kompanie (Schwere) 2 x150 Infantry Gun 4 x 75 IG
14th Kompanie (PzJg) 9 x 75mm PAK
15th Kompanie (Pionere) 2 x HMG 9 x LMG 6 smoke generators

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Artillery Regt 178
----------------------------------------------------------------
3 Abt each 3 batteries of four 105mm howitzers and
1 Abt of 3 battery of four 155mm howitzers
(36 105mm and 12 155mm)
---------------------------------------------------------------
PzJg Abt 178 (2 Kompanie each 9 x Marder II and 2 x 88mm AT guns)

Pioniere Bn 178 (2 Kompanie Pionier, each 1 HMG 6 LMG 1 x 82mm mortar)

Brk Sturm Bn 78 (1-3 Kompanie 2 HMG, 11 LMG, 2 x 82mm and 2 x 50mm mortar)(4th Kompanie 2 HMG, 8 LMG 4 x120mm moratr and 2 x 20mm AA)

Schwere Granat Werfer Bn 5 (motor) 2 batteries each 12 x 120mm mortar

Flak Abt 178 2 schwere batteries each 8 x 88mm Flak and 3 x 20mm Flak and 1 medium battery of 11 x 20mm flak

StuG Abt 189 (31 StuGIIIG) 27 available on 22/6/44

Felders Bn 178 (replacement Bn)

Nebelwerfer Abt 178 (not on organisation chart 1/6/44)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
attached units:
Schwere Flak Abt 293 (2 battery 88mm plus 20mm Flak)
Sturm Bn (AOK4)
Pionere Bn 752 (AOK Reserve)
Pz Auf Abt 125 (25th Pz Gr Div)
Grenadier Regt 480 (260 Inf Div)
Fusilier Battalion 260 (260 Inf Div)
III/Sich Bn (286 Security Division)

This is a great unit with some really exotic OOB in 1943 but by 1944 it was becoming more like a standard infantry division albeit a strong and well equipped one.
Hi, 78 Sturm division should have Nashorn tank destroyers in June 1944.

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Re: 78th Sturm Division before Operation Bagration

#11

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 25 Apr 2010, 19:21

No we looked into this specific question and there was only one issue to the PzJg Abt and that was with Marder IIs. Nashorns were available but they were an Army level unit and not part of the Divisional structure.

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Re: 78th Sturm Division before Operation Bagration

#12

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 25 Apr 2010, 20:50

78 is supposed to have had a Nashorn Bn attached but I have never been able to find out which one. 519 was in HG Mitte at the time so it might have been that ?
Alan

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Re: 78th Sturm Division before Operation Bagration

#13

Post by Kelvin » 30 Nov 2010, 19:11

Steve Zaloga book mentions 18 Nashorn possessed by 78. Sturm division but he does not mention whether was attached unit or direct unit.

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Re: 78th Sturm Division before Operation Bagration

#14

Post by Kelvin » 10 Jul 2015, 07:18

Did 78. Sturm Division really possessed 16 x .8 cm Flak as normal Panzer divison at this time only had eight 8.8 cm Flak. Only GD, Pz Lehr and Waffen SS Pz divisons had more than eight.

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Re: 78th Sturm Division before Operation Bagration

#15

Post by Piet Duits » 10 Jul 2015, 07:24

Hi guys,

The division did not have 16x 8,8cm Flak. Instead, the 2 8,8cm Batteries had each 4 instead of 8 guns.

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