help on 1.SS Pz division monthly report Oct 1943

[Kelvin]

Hello, I am studying 1.SS Pz division Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler operation in Ukraine, and checking monthly report in late 1943, I have several figures in Oct 1 1943 report unconfirmed and need someone help :

It was the figures on operational figures for m.angeir.bwg ( motorcycle with sidecar), sonst ( other types of motorcycles) and PKW O ( ordinary field car), anyone could help me on that figures.

[stoveb]

Hi,

The numbers are soll/ist/in short term repair

Krad mit beiwagen 756/482/85

sonst (Krad) 1039/338/103

Pkw O 384/492/36



Cheers
Steve

[Kelvin]

Hi, Steve, thank for your help. It help me so much.

Regarding this report, in sPak column, it had 15 operational sPak and 0 in repair but in OOB chart on the same day, I find more than 15 sPak, in stab, in schwere panzergrenadier kompanie in each bataillon except III. Btn/SS.PG. Rgt. 2 LAH and also in 18./SS. PG.Rgt.1 LAH , 17./SS. Rgt. 2. LAH and 5./SS. Aufk. Abt. Which one is correct, report or OOB chart ?

[Harro]

Well Kelvin, this time I keep my information regarding this matter to myself

[Kelvin]

From Sept and Oct 1943 OOB Chart :
I found that Leibstandarte 's III./SS Pz.Gren.Rgt. 2 did not have any sd.kfz.251/2 and sd.kfz.251/9 but sdkfz 251/10 and all bataillon of Pz.Gren.Rgt with equipped exclusively 12 cm mortar. Was it normal practise in 1943 ?Ihve much more data in status of Pz Division in 1944, most of their armored battalion normally had 6 x sd.kfz.251/2 and 12 x sd.kfz.251/9 , was it possible the situation of Leibstandarte divison is normal situation in status of Panzer division in 1943 ? ( Did not have self propelled mortar and cannon carrier ( sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz 251/9) and all other battalion had 12 cm mortar instead of 8 cm mortar ? And in its 12./SS Pz.Gren.Rgt. 2 . I find 6 x Grille

Also, 5./SS Pz.A.A. 1 ( schwere Aufk komp) did not have sdkfz251/9 but I find 6 x Grille too

[Harro]

Well Kelvin, this time I keep my information regarding this matter to myself

Also, 5./SS Pz.A.A. 1 ( schwere Aufk komp) did not have sdkfz251/9 but I find 6 x Grille too

Their Grille existed only on paper when the SS-Pz.AA1 arrived in Belgium. Oh well,

4. April 1943 – Die bisherige 5. (schw. -) Kompanie wird in die Panzerjäger-Kompanie und in die I.G.-Kompanie aufgeteilt.

22. April 1943 - SS-Untersturmführer Horst Wagner, bis dahin Führer des II. Zuges, 3. (le.SPW-) Kompanie, übernimmt die Führung der 6. (I.G.-) Kompanie

28. Juni 1943 – SS-Untersturmführer Volkmar Tamm wird von der 5. (Pz.Jg.-) Kompanie zur 6. (I.G.-) Kompanie versetzt. SS-Untersturmführer Horst Wagner wird von der 6. (I.G.-) Kompanie als Zugführer zur 3. (le.SPW-) Kompanie versetzt.

Stellenbesetzung am 1. Juli 1943
6. (I.G.-) Kompanie : SS-Untersturmführer Volkmar Tamm
I. Zug (Grille) : SS-Oberscharführer Tschigotta
II. Zug (Grille) : SS-Oberscharführer Walter Tesch
III. Zug (Grille) : SS-Unterscharführer Heinrich Euler
schw. I.G.-Zug (mot.) : SS-Oberscharführer Gottschalk
le. I.G.-Zug (mot.) : SS-Oberscharführer Heinz Kern

Stellenbesetzung am 1. September 1943
6. (I.G.-) Kompanie : wahrscheinlich SS-Obersturmführer Günther Hollatz
1. Zug (Grille) : SS-Oberscharführer Heinrich Euler
schw. I.G.-Zug (mot.) : SS-Oberscharführer Horst Jansen
le. I.G.-Zug (mot.) : SS-Unterscharführer Hermann Krause

11. - 16. Mai 1944
Drastischste Veränderung ist die Zusammenlegung der 5. (Pz.Jgr.-) und 6. (I.G.-) Kompanie zu einer 5. (schw.-) Kompanie unter SS-Obersturmführer Frieder Junghanns. Fritz Enz erinnert sich, dass die 6. (I.G.-) Kompanie, die keine ihrer Grillen (schw. I.G. auf Selbstfahrlafette) aus der Ukraine mit nach Belgien bringen konnte, nur noch aus einem von Standartenoberjunker Horst Kremser geführten Kanonenzug besteht und 3 t. Schützenpanzerwagen mit 7,5 Kurz KwK 37 L/24 (Sd. Kfz. 251/9) erhalten sollte.

[Harro]

...

[Alanmccoubrey]

Harro, That Grille does indeed seem to belong to someone's Recce Bn !

Kelvin, Looking on Martin Block's listing I see that LAH had 12 x Grille sent in June 1943, does this mean then that rather than both Pz Gren Regt's having 6 each, only PzGren Regt 2 had the Grille while Pz Gren Regt 1 had towed guns ?

[Harro]

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=143563&start=15#p1496307

[Kelvin]

Hi, Harro, in studying Leibstandarte division data in late 1943, I suggest that Leibstandarte maybe the strongest panzer division in the late period of war.

In Oct, 1943, Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler had 54 x Pz IV , 71 x Panther and 27 x Tiger in its Panzer Regiment, 30 x StuG III and 9 x StuH in its Sturmgestuctz Abteilung and 28 x Marder in its Panzerjager abteilung.

During Oct 1943, she took 22 x Pz IV from 1. Panzer division and also received 29 new Pz IV from HQ. Given the mechanicial failure of her Panther tanks, Leibstandarte returned all her Panther D to HQ in exchange for 96 new Panther A .

So in Nov 1943, Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler should have over 103 x Pz IV, 96 x Panther, 27 x Tiger, 30 x StuG III, 9 x StuH and 28 x Marder, totally 303 AFV on hand, more than Panzer Lehr 's 237 AFV on hand in June 1944. Although GroBdeutschland PG division had over 360 AFV on hand as 51. and 52. Pz.Abt attached to her but the latter two units were not her organic units.

[Harro]

Could you define "the late period of war"? And why do you compare LAH strenght of 1943 with PzLehr in 1944? Comparing both 1944 strenghts would make more sense.

[Kelvin]

Later period, I mean July 1943 to May 1945

[Harro]

Being strong in October 1943 makes the LAH the strongest from 1943 all the way to May 1945? LAH was decimated by the time it was send to Belgium, so what does the strength in October tell you about the rest of the war?

[Kelvin]

Hello, Harro, Leibstandarte 's Tiger unit was still company level ? I found that that division had 27 Tiger on September 01 and October 1 1944, more than company that they were authorized to have that number ?

[Alanmccoubrey]

Kelvin, Have you got that year correct ? LAH didn't have a Tiger Company in September 1944 did it ?