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Certain heroism of Wehrmacht & Waffen SS in WW2

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Freikorps, Reichswehr, Austrian Bundesheer, Heer, Waffen-SS and Volkssturm.
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Certain heroism of Wehrmacht & Waffen SS in WW2

Postby Panzermahn on 25 Feb 2003 05:13

In WW2, everyone only got the image of Wehrmacht and Waffen SS as bunch of homicidal robots bend on destruction and devastation..But do you, some certain individuals soldiers and officers alike a heroes FOR SAVING THE LIVES OF CIVILLIANS AND THEIR ENEMIES..

For example,

1) In Luxembourg, a German army corporal named Johann Punzel, saved a group of luxembourgers (including a women) scheduled for execution during an allied air raid which damage the supply depot of the heer..Corporal Punzel was assigned to guard the civillians until he was 100% convinced that they were innocent...then he found a truck and sent everyone to safety..Everyone in that group gave him his money or watches but punzel declined...and only gave his name and serial number The incident was forgotten when the German army unit was moved on....After the war, corporal Punzel was decorated by the Luxembourg minister of justice (he was one of the group who escaped) for bravery and courage (source, Reader's digest, stories from WW2)


2) After france surrendered, The Wehrmacht assisted the french refugess in returning to their country (John Toland's book, Adolf Hitler)


3) In 1942 A Waffen SS officer in Greece, captured a british commando but refused to shoot him according to the Nacht und nebel erlass..Instead he treated his wounds and let finally let him go...After Germany's surrendered, this waffen ss officer who was about to turn over to the partisan which would certainly met with death, produce to the authorities a letter written by the british commando thanking him for his treatment...


I hope members of the forum can share with us the little known story of certain heroism of Wehrmacht and Waffen SS to civillians and their enemies in WW2
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Postby Sokol on 26 Feb 2003 10:57

I love these topics - really, I do. Here's panzermahn giving us three examples of German chivalry. Of course, all of them are from Central and Western Europe. Why don't you give me some examples of German chivalry in Russia/Belarus/Ukraine/Poland, mate? Selective chivalry is no chivalry at all.
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Postby John W on 26 Feb 2003 14:49

:lol: Maybe that's why he's asking for our help...
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Postby Starinov on 26 Feb 2003 16:38

Jee, here we go again about how the "Waffen-SS are all good and nice to people".
Panzermahn, GROW UP.
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Re: Certain heroism of Wehrmacht & Waffen SS in WW2

Postby Timo on 26 Feb 2003 16:58

panzermahn wrote:In WW2, everyone only got the image of Wehrmacht and Waffen SS as bunch of homicidal robots bend on destruction and devastation..But do you, some certain individuals soldiers and officers alike a heroes FOR SAVING THE LIVES OF CIVILLIANS AND THEIR ENEMIES..

...Some certain individuals soldiers and officers? You want to prove something yet you prove the opposite.

1) In Luxembourg, a German army corporal named Johann Punzel, saved a group of luxembourgers (including a women) scheduled for execution during an allied air raid which damage the supply depot of the heer.

...Exactly your statement that Punzel was unique in his compassion underlines the image of Wehrmacht and Waffen SS as bunch of homicidal robots bend on destruction and devastation.
2) After france surrendered, The Wehrmacht assisted the french refugess in returning to their country

...Whats your point here?
3) In 1942 A Waffen SS officer in Greece, captured a british commando but refused to shoot him according to the Nacht und nebel erlass..Instead he treated his wounds and let finally let him go

...Same as Punzel. Add to that the fact that the others did follow the Nacht und Nebel erlass, and we're back to the image of Wehrmacht and Waffen SS as bunch of homicidal robots bend on destruction and devastation..
I hope members of the forum can share with us the little known story of certain heroism of Wehrmacht and Waffen SS to civillians and their enemies in WW2

Sure I can, because the Wehrmacht and Waffen SS were not a bunch of homicidal robots bend on destruction and devastation. But on the other hand, the Algemeine-SS certainly was, the Einsatzkommandos certainly were, the the Nazi regime certainly was and also elements within the Wehrmacht and particularly within the Waffen-SS were murderous criminals. For every story of certain heroism of Wehrmacht and Waffen SS to civillians and their enemies in WW2 we can give ten stories of certain barbarism of Wehrmacht and Waffen SS to civillians and their enemies in WW2.

An individual member of the Wehrmacht or Waffen-SS was not a criminal by definition, just as the Wehrmacht and the Waffen-SS were no criminal organizations by definition (contrary to the Nurnberg findings). But they were no saints as they were fighting a dirty war in the East, which saw horrible behaviour from both sides, and considerable numbers of Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS members did commit crimes.
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Postby John W on 26 Feb 2003 18:44

I suppose I can say that I understand Panzermahn's entusiasm for the soldiers of the Waffen SS. Unfortunately, I seem to doubt his ... er, my english is weak to describe it.

Like almost everyone here knows : The Waffen SS were elite soldiers. great warriors (as before, when refered to as such, i mean the classic divisions. I obviously am not talking about Dirlewanger and Co.) and tough men. But, but, but don't ever forget that they did serve an evil cause... a cause which they probably knew about. Sure, most men would not have known about the conc. camps but I'm very sure that they could see the execution of PoWs. That in itself is an inhuman act. Not to mention the burning of villages and eviction of innocent civilians into the brutal cold of winters. Those acts by themselves were criminal and should never be condoned. To gloss over them in light of their military achievements is just plain sick and morally repungent.

So, can we please get over this topic, because frankly it is getting old... even for an admirer of the Waffen SS as myself
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Postby Panzermahn on 27 Feb 2003 09:18

I love these topics - really, I do. Here's panzermahn giving us three examples of German chivalry. Of course, all of them are from Central and Western Europe. Why don't you give me some examples of German chivalry in Russia/Belarus/Ukraine/Poland, mate? Selective chivalry is no chivalry at all.



Unterscharfuhrer Michael Wittmann of the LSSAH, after destroying a russian tank from his StuG III in 1943, went out to smothered the flames of the burning russian tank and rescued 4 of its crew. After that he asked for the russian tank crews to be given the best medical care available...

Sturmbahnfuhrer Joachim Peiper LSSAH, rescued a Jewish rabbi in Italy who was his neighbour in Berlin from being deported to Auschwitz. After the war, this rabbi wrote a testimony and affidavit for the defense of Peiper during the Malmedy trials.


Jee, here we go again about how the "Waffen-SS are all good and nice to people


I didn't said waffen SS are ALL good and nice to people...All i say is there is CERTAIN HEROISM FROM WEHRMACHT AND WAFFEN SS...please don't put words into my mouth.do you speak and read proper english, ivan?


Sturmbahnfuhrer Egon Skalka, medical officer of the 9th SS Panzer Division Hohenstaufen, treated the wounds of captured allied paratroopers during operation market garden.


As i said, most of you only knew that devastation and destruction caused by Wehrmacht and Waffen SS. but it is only fair and objective that we should know that some certain individuals in Waffen SS and Wehrmacht are brave and courageous for saving the lives of civillians and captured POWs.

) After france surrendered, The Wehrmacht assisted the french refugess in returning to their country

...Whats your point here?


Because the frenchmen expect that when the Germans invaded France, there will be rape, looting and murder but none of those things happened..If Wehrmacht was really as cruel as you all think they are (i'm not saying that they did not commit atrocities), why would they assisted the refugees to return to France..The Wehrmacht should have killed all the french refugees without mercy..why doesn't it happened? Is it some of you who can accept Wehrmacht is homicidal bunch of maniacs bent on killing everything and anything but cannot accept that even the Wehrmacht are capable of small little kindness
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Postby ISU-152 on 27 Feb 2003 09:40

panzermahn wrote:Unterscharfuhrer Michael Wittmann of the LSSAH, after destroying a russian tank from his StuG III in 1943, went out to smothered the flames of the burning russian tank and rescued 4 of its crew. After that he asked for the russian tank crews to be given the best medical care available...


:lol: :lol: One exception of the rule makes the rule even stronger. The usual practice of germans was if they capture the crew of a soviet tank to spray them with gas and burn them alive. Bagramian, the chief of 1st Baltic front writes in his memoirs that they often found knocked out tanks with four or three badly burnt bodies in tank uniforms near it.

Would you like to find out how your brave SS-men burnt an entire hospital with wounded and personel inside near lake Balaton in early March 1945? I guess not, because it does not fit into your worldview. In one thing you are right that was a murdering bunch with few nice exceptions which made the rule even stronger.
Grow up.
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Postby Fred on 27 Feb 2003 11:58

The usual practice of germans was if they capture the crew of a soviet tank to spray them with gas and burn them alive. Bagramian, the chief of 1st Baltic front writes in his memoirs that they often found knocked out tanks with four or three badly burnt bodies in tank uniforms near it.


When a tank gets hit by a anti-tank projectile it produces a massive amount of energy causes the crew to catch fire.
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Postby Musashi on 27 Feb 2003 12:04

ISU-152 wrote:
panzermahn wrote:Unterscharfuhrer Michael Wittmann of the LSSAH, after destroying a russian tank from his StuG III in 1943, went out to smothered the flames of the burning russian tank and rescued 4 of its crew. After that he asked for the russian tank crews to be given the best medical care available...


:lol: :lol: One exception of the rule makes the rule even stronger. The usual practice of germans was if they capture the crew of a soviet tank to spray them with gas and burn them alive. Bagramian, the chief of 1st Baltic front writes in his memoirs that they often found knocked out tanks with four or three badly burnt bodies in tank uniforms near it.

Would you like to find out how your brave SS-men burnt an entire hospital with wounded and personel inside near lake Balaton in early March 1945? I guess not, because it does not fit into your worldview. In one thing you are right that was a murdering bunch with few nice exceptions which made the rule even stronger.
Grow up.

I completely agree
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Postby ISU-152 on 27 Feb 2003 12:04

Fred wrote:
The usual practice of germans was if they capture the crew of a soviet tank to spray them with gas and burn them alive. Bagramian, the chief of 1st Baltic front writes in his memoirs that they often found knocked out tanks with four or three badly burnt bodies in tank uniforms near it.


When a tank gets hit by a anti-tank projectile it produces a massive amount of energy causes the crew to catch fire.

I don't need your theories here Freddie. :wink: The tank hit by such projectile if it did not cause detonation of ordnance or fire in the engine compartment is quite sound for the crew to escape. There are plenty of eye-witnesses that that was a common german practice.
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Postby Fred on 27 Feb 2003 12:30

I don't need your theories here Freddie. The tank hit by such projectile if it did not cause detonation of ordnance or fire in the engine compartment is quite sound for the crew to escape. There are plenty of eye-witnesses that that was a common german practice
.

8O 8O 8O
ever heard of kinetic energy???
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Postby John W on 27 Feb 2003 17:14

I have visual proof of 3-4 waffen SS soldiers helping a wounded Russian soldier onto a vehicle and another shot showing a doctor (?) administering first aid to the same person. I think it is incidents like these that panzermahn wants us to point out.

Agreed, a few isolated incidents of bravery and compassion(?) do not make the exception the rule. However, to claim that the entire waffen SS was otherwise is again swinging to the other extreme, a measure which I believe should be avoided.
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Postby Panzermahn on 28 Feb 2003 06:57

However, to claim that the entire waffen SS was otherwise is again swinging to the other extreme, a measure which I believe should be avoided



Once again Sturm is correct..Did i ever claimed that the whole of the Waffen SS was very nice to the peoples of Europe? Read again the title of this topic...

CERTAIN HEROISM FROM WEHRMACHT AND WAFFEN SS

Sometimes i just whether some of the russian members in this forum could read and understand basic Queen's English
Last edited by Panzermahn on 28 Feb 2003 07:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Panzermahn on 28 Feb 2003 07:08

Would you like to find out how your brave SS-men burnt an entire hospital with wounded and personel inside near lake Balaton in early March 1945? I guess not, because it does not fit into your worldview. In one thing you are right that was a murdering bunch with few nice exceptions which made the rule even stronger.
Grow up.


Oh, how about that would you like to find out how your heroic Great Patriotic Red Bolsheviks Marines attack the Feodosia hospital and throw the german wounded and POWs as well as doctors and nurses out of the windows into the sea cliffs after bayonetting them? Not just throwing them out from the windows, but pouring cold water into the bodies of german wounded so that they would freeze outside in Crimea late 1941...

How about Captain Alexander Marinesko of the Red Bolshevik Navy submarine S-13 who torpedoed 2 hospital ships, Wilhelm Gustloff and General von Steuben causing more than 10,000 casualties of women, children and wounded german troops despite having a large Red Cross painted on both the starbord and port side of the ships in 1945?

I guess not because it does not fit into your worldview of the heroic Russians who saved Europe from Nazi tyranny. In one thing you are right that was a murdering bunch with few nice exceptions which made the rule even stronger.

By the way, what's is your source of the claim that SS men burned an entire hospital with wounded and personnel inside near laka Balaton in 1945? What is the SS unit?
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