Why the Waffen-SS

[imi912]

That's still no proof for your statement that wounded Waffen-SS soldiers had first aid priority let alone that the assumed first aid priority was because they were "valued more" due to their "expensive training".

And no offense but I don't understand the relevance of your post about the Algemeine-SS, black uniforms and collar tabs. As far as I know you still left several of your statements unsourced: all SS were volunteers, were mostly party members, always received the best equipment and usually always succeeded. Apart from that you are yet to explain why your wrote "occasional executions".

- Because the blood group tattoo means the SS had the right of the primary first aid in the frontline but okay: I waiting your story when you can explain why the SS had a blood group tattoo on the armpit, and the Wehrmacht or Luftwaffe soldiers why not have?

Anyway I getting think you are a provocateur and if you not answer my questions, and I"m get to end our conversation

- Occasional executions means sometimes execute jews, communists, commissars, gipsyes in the frontline where it was not possible or not have time, man and machine power to transport them to concentration camps

The Totenkopf not only guarding the concentration camps, they took part in it were made with the SD sometimes with mass executions in Russia

The soviet civilians reportedly to the Russian comissars "german soldiers made executions in black uniform with death skull on their collar tabs and caps"
(those soldiers was the members SS Totenkopf and the SD, but the Wehrmacht and the Luftwaffe ground units also made executions or retaliations sometimes)
These civilian incomplete report can lead to serious misunderstandings in the early stage of war, because the german tank drivers were also black uniform and have skull on their collar tabs and caps and the Russians commisars and civilians think they was the Einsatzgruppe members and many innocent german tank driver tortured and killed innocently

The Russians later learn to distinguish the types of the german uniforms who are the SS and who are non-SS soldiers and later search the armpit tattoos on every POW.
The Russkis hate the SS because of the killings, and because all the SS was volunteers who were believe strong in the Nazi ideology, they not compulsorily simple conscripted soldiers, only political armed volunteers

The SS system was similar the soviet "Red Guards" or the american "Marine Corps", they must complies basic physical requirements and comply tests to be join into these special forces

[ML59]

No black uniformed SS members ever operated in Russia. The black A-SS uniform was retired from service at the beginning of the war, available stocks were used in 1941-42 to dress local police auxiliaries in the East (Schuma) and also some local "political" police volunteers in the west.
Permanent cadre A-SS and SD personnel from 1940 onwards dressed with a grey service uniform that was more in-line with the total war mobilization of the German society

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

Because the blood group tattoo means the SS had the right of the primary first aid in the frontline

Wrong.

all the SS was volunteers

Wrong.

who were believe strong in the Nazi ideology

Wrong.

The SS system was similar the soviet "Red Guards" or the american "Marine Corps", they must complies basic physical requirements and comply tests to be join into these special forces

Wrong. The Red Guards was a paramilitary force from the time of the revolution, which had inferior training and equipment. The Marine Corps is a branch of the US armed forces. Neither is a special force.

[Harro]

- Because the blood group tattoo means the SS had the right of the primary first aid in the frontline but okay: I waiting your story when you can explain why the SS had a blood group tattoo on the armpit, and the Wehrmacht or Luftwaffe soldiers why not have?

The purpose of the tattoo was to identify a soldier's blood type in case a blood transfusion was needed while unconscious, or his Erkennungsmarke (dog tag) or Soldbuch (pay book) were missing. The fact that I do not know why these were not given to Heeres or Luftwaffe soldiers is irrelevant since there is not proof whatsoever for your theory that SS soldiers were given first aid priority over other soldiers. How did your theory supposedly would have worked? Were orders issued to Wehrmacht medical personnel detailing that they were to drop whatever common soldiers they were helping the moment a wounded "valuable" SS soldier was brought in? Were wounded soldiers checked for bloodgroup tattoos by medics to establish whether or not they were SS members and did these medics then move the wounded SS first, leaving the "common" wounded to be helped later or to die? Please show us your sourced evidence.

Anyway I getting think you are a provocateur and if you not answer my questions, and I"m get to end our conversation

LOL, so far I have answered all your questions so what are you on about? On the other hand you still did not provide sourced evidence for your statements that all SS were volunteers, were mostly part members, always received the best equipment and usually always succeeded.

The SS system was similar the soviet "Red Guards" or the american "Marine Corps", they must complies basic physical requirements and comply tests to be join into these special forces

Please not the often parroted myth about the SS being comparable to the US Marines again. The SS were NO "special forces". Yes, at first the SS had strict racial standards but these were dropped as soon as the war started. Sometimes for practical reasons (it was very clear that the height requirements made no sense for tanks and armoured car crews) but mainly because the SS needed replacements on a massive scale to replace the casualties. I already told you about the Hermann-Göring-Spende, did you look them up yet? Clear proof that your statements about the SS being all volunteers, mostly highly motivated party members with superior training are complete nonsense. From 1943 onward the SS basically enlisted every man who could hold a rifle. For the last time: your fantasies about the SS are a far distant from reality and do not become the truth just because you believe your right.

I strongly recommend you actually read what has already been posted on this matter in various topics in this forum before you commence posting the same old questions all over again. I would even suggest that should be mandatory for anyone who wants to join this thread.

[David Thompson]

imi912 -- You wrote (of Harro):

I getting think you are a provocateur and if you not answer my questions, and I"m get to end our conversation

That's not quite how it works here. I suggest you review our rules, which require civility in posting and prohibit insults. Our intelligent readers typically require sources for disputed factual claims. As for Harro, he is a respected, valued contributor here and long-time member. Please consider your own reputation before erring again.

[Harro]

- The SS troops was all volunteers
No one force to join the SS in Germany or any other foreign country

One more quick question, is there any documents that show what percentage of all men who served in the Waffen-SS were volunteers?

It's probably easiest to research unit by unit and country by country.

The W-SS recruitment was originally constrained by Hitler and the Heer - the W-SS could only recruit a certain small percentage of German youth.

That's why Himmler placed Gottlob Berger in charge of recruitment efforts. Berger found 2 new sources of men to be made into W-SS troops: "volksdeutsche" (ethnic Germans living in countries other than Germany) and foreign volunteers. Originally, these foreign volunteers were raised from acceptably "aryan" racial stock, such as the Danes, Flemings, Norwegians, etc. but eventually due to wartime manpower shortages and the worsening military situation the W-SS raised units from regions of "lesser" racial quality such as the Bosnian Muslims or Ukrainians. The concept of race was never far from SS recruitment minds, and influenced the naming scheme of the divisions.

W-SS foreign volunteer recruitment were organized by German occupied administrative region. The incentives for recruitment varied from region to region, specifically tailored for each target audience. For example, Flemish recruits were promised civil service jobs after the war and even grants of land in Russia after the war war over.

Its also important to point out that many foreign volunteers didn't join the W-SS per se but were serving in units that became absorbed into the W-SS: the Estonian shuma (police) battalions being one example, the SS Cossack Corps being another (although in the latter case it was more of a administrative change than anything else)

Volkesdeutche recruitment drives were often organized by the VOMI (sort of a SS special interest group for "racial Germans") or other local Nazi-affiliated organizations. Gottlob Berger success at volksedeutsche recruitment in Rumania was due to a large degree at first to his son-in-law Andreas Schmidt, who brought the ethnic German political organization DVR firmly under the SS wing. Volksdeutsche recruitment drives were also organized regionally, and included incentives such as German citizenship. But many volksdeutsche were coerced or coopted into joining the W-SS; a 16-year old volksdeutscher from the Banat could sign up for a 2-week SS summer camp and find himself a full-fledged recruit for the 7th SS "Prinz Eugen" mt. division for the duration.

Himmler wanted to increase the size and power of the W-SS, partly for pure power but also as a result of the worsening military situation. That's why by 1944 so many W-SS units were either getting created or getting upgraded to division status. Most of the 38+/- W-SS divisions never ever achieved anything approaching a standard divisional headcount (say 12,000+/- men)

Perhaps the only generalization about the W-SS that can be made is the fact that its very hard to make generalizations about the W-SS.

I am at work at the moment so I just can talk what I remember. From late 1942 on the W-SS had problems to fill their new forming divisions and the casualties of the existing divisions with volunteers.
The W-SS had to call in conscripts from the territories they had under their control.
My grandfather and his two brothers were drafted into the 7.SS-Prinz Eugen (never volunteered) as all other male from their district (Stefansfeld) in the Banat.
His third brother was older and didn´t want to be drafted into the SS. He volunteered into the Heer one year earlier.

\Christoph

The Waffen-SS began conscripting men in 1942. Source: Heinrich Hoehne, The Order of the Death's Head: The Story of Hitler's SS, Ballantine Books, New York: 1971, p. 535.

[BillHermann]

mi912,

Besides the factual information that Harro has given I would like to give an example as well that goes completely against your statement that the Waffen-SS were elite heroes. This would be the 36th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS. They were part of the organization but most were not volunteers and many were no where near the best of the best. Nor were they given the best equipment. As well many recruits were draftees and some came from prisons and concentration camps. There were other divisions and units as well that were substandard. Having an organization like the Waffen-SS that was willing to have the 36th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS as a part of it definitely adds to the concept that the Waffen-SS was no where near the best. Also you can not say that the Waffen-SS had the best of the best when it is factual that they used captured French and Russian equipment out of necessity while many Heer units were still getting German equipment. The Heer was not starved of the best equipment.

Now whether or not you have veteran friends there is little to no way to know but even if you do veterans and veterans family tend to over exaggerate due to memories and esprit du corps. Ex soldiers always want to be remembered as the best and this is even more with the Waffen-SS due to the shame and loss.

Finally you may have your personal opinions but as David said many of the members here have a great deal of experience and knowledge on the matter of the Waffen-SS.

[Pena V]

imi912,

I have been following the conversation between you and Harro right from the start and I said to myself that I don't want to mix myself into it. I was wrong. I just cannot watch this without commenting. First of all I have never been called anti-SS rather the contrary, if anything. Take this into account when you read the following comments of your latest claims.

- Because the blood group tattoo means the SS had the right of the primary first aid in the frontline but okay: I waiting your story when you can explain why the SS had a blood group tattoo on the armpit, and the Wehrmacht or Luftwaffe soldiers why not have?

This is simply nonsense. When an SS soldier was WIA and needed first aid in the frontline he was taken to his units medics/doctors. He was not given priority over Wehrmacht or Luftwaffe soldiers because they simply weren't there. They were treated in their own units. The different branches were mixed much later in hospitals but by that time emergency blood was not needed any more. The reason why SS had blood group tattoos was that in emergency cases the medics/doctors knew what type of blood was needed if the WIA was not able speak.

Anyway I getting think you are a provocateur

Harro has been around since 19 May 2005 (and even before that using the name of Timo) and his contribution so far has been 2632 posts. Funny that nobody in 11 years has noticed that he is a provocateur and now you are able to tell this with the experience of less than 9 months.

- the majority of new types of weapons given to the SS, I will not list the equipment

A wise decicion of you not to list the equipment because this claim is not true.

- (in 1933 there was no Waffen-SS at all) Really? Your infos are falseThe Waffen SS founded by 1928 and being organized military units in 1933 until 1945

SS-Stabswache which was the origin of LSSAH was created 17 March 1933. This was the first unit of SS-Verfugungstruppe which in turn changed it's name to Waffen-SS after the start of WW II.
Imi912, you will loose this conversation to Harro 100-0. End of story.

Pena V

[CNE503]

Imi912, you will loose this conversation to Harro 100-0. End of story.

+1 (or +100)
Imi912, don't make a fool of yourself more than you've already done...

CNE503

[Richard Anderson]

Imi912, you will loose this conversation to Harro 100-0. End of story.

+1 (or +100)
Imi912, don't make a fool of yourself more than you've already done...

CNE503

Not too interested in stepping into the large stinking pile suddenly deposited into this thread, but according to HaEn the Ss were experimenting with direct transfusion on the battlefield.

Hitler would likely have enjoyed having a Panzer Division at the Beer Hall, which is what the Wiki implies.

[Christoph Awender]

Hello,

The SS was not experimenting with direct blood transfusion. This was already normal Standard everywhere. And also the only possible way because in the russian steppe it was not possible to get blood conserves. If none of the usual Laboratory possibilities was available (which was often the case in the field) the usual test was to mix a small amount of donator and patient-wait a few minutes for an reaction or none. Then the blood was transferred directly with equipment present in every medical unit. This procedure was already Standard before the War.

And my 2 Cent to the blood tattoo super hero advantage- in the field it theoretically brought an advantage of three minutes - practically none.

Christoph

[Vernichtung45]

People like playing the SS (Even I) because of the uniforms, tactics, better arsenal quantity then what heer troops had, and being a "baddie"

[BillHermann]

did you not just read the above posts Vernichtung45 ?

[Marcus]

did you not just read the above posts Vernichtung45 ?

To be fair that post was moved to this thread, it was not posted here originally. I should have made a comment about that.

[1stPanzer]

From someone who reacts the Waffen SS - sorry I may be repeating old information in the thread - we chose the unit because of a family friend who wanted his story told.