Pz.Gr.Rgt. 21

[MVisserFrey]

hi everyone, who can tell me more about the Pz.Gr.Rgt. 21.? My great uncle was fighting there in Russia and died 23.11.1942. I would be interested to hear what kind of regiment it was, Wehrmacht or also SS (because I can't be sure if I have a look via Google), I read that the whole regiment was destroyed around 1943 in Russia. My great uncle Artur Frey died in B. Tschir (near the river Tschir I suppose) and was buried in Nowo Maksimowski.
Furthermore, could anyone tell me what this means: -111-1.Rt.Rgt.1 (it refers to the word 'Erkennungsmarke', which can either be some kind of award or just a recognition mark).
I would be very interested to hear.

[NagaSadow]

Hello!

The Panzergrenadier-Regiment 21 was a Wehrmacht motorized infantry regiment and part of the 24. Panzer-Division.
-111-1.Rg.Rgt.1 would have been the inscription on his Erkennungsmarke (dogtag). 111 was his personal Erkennungsmarken number, 1.Rgt. Rgt. 1 was the unit he received it from, in this case 1./Reiter-Regiment 1 (1st squadron of cavalry regiment 1) belonging to the 1. Kavallerie-Division (1st cavalry division). In November/December 1941 the 1. Kavallerie-Division was reorganized into the 24. Panzer-Division (24th armored division) and Reiter-Regiment 1 became Schützen-Regiment 21 which in turn was renamed Panzergrenadier-Regiment 21 on 5th July 1942. The Regiment (and the whole 24. Panzer-Division) was destroyed at the Battle of Stalingrad in January/February 1943. A new 24. Panzer-Division with a new Panzergrenadier-Regiment 21 was raised in April 1943 and fought until the end of the war.

Hope that helps

[Hauptmann Holston]

"Tanks", NagaSadow for the info on the 21 reg. and the 24 Pz. Div. I've been doing some research for some models I'm doing. The 24 Pz. being formed from a calvary unit I'm sure is why they wore the yellow-orange waffenfarbe (arm or branch color), but what about the 21 Pz. Gr. Reg.. The panzer-grenadiers' waffenfarben was Grass Green, but wasn't the 21 Pz. Gr. Reg.s' piping the yellow-orange

[NagaSadow]

Hello!

Sorry, can't help you with that. But it is indeed correct that the 24. Pz.Div. displayed it's cavalry heritage. At least the armor regiment (Panzer-Regiment 24) of the division even continued to call its companies squadrons.

[MVisserFrey]

Hi NagaSadow, thanks very much for the information, that is really of great help to me! I just received the information last week from the 'Deutsche Dienstelle' (former Wehrmachtauskunfstelle) and my family has been wondering for ages what could have happened to him! The only thing my grandfather received during the war was a postcard with a picture of his brother and the date when he fell in the War (23rd of November 1942)...So the whole Regiment was destroyed during the Battle of Stalingrad, but during what battle could he have been fallen?? Because it was still 1942...

If I understand you correctly then his Regiment became a SS/Regiment in July 1942? That could be right because my mother told me that my grandfather used to say that his brother was part of a SS Regiment.

I would also be curious about the name B. Tschir (place where he fell). The Tschir is a river but what does the B. mean?
And he was buried somewhere in Nowo Maksimowski, I suppose in a mass grave, because his body was never recovered and the only thing that remains in Rossoschka (where the soldiers' graves are) is a list with his name on it.
They wrote me that I can apply for a picture of that list.

[NagaSadow]

Hello!

The Battle of Stalingrad started began in September 1942 and ended in February 1943 - so your uncle was killed during the Battle. He died during the second phase, the Soviet counterattack, which began on 19th November and lead to the encirclement of the 6. Armee (6th Army) and parts of the 4. Panzer-Armee five days later.

No, the units didn't switch between Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS and your uncles regiment simply changed its name. There was a SS-Panzergrenadier-Regiment 21 belonging to the 10. SS-Panzer-Division Frundsberg but that was a completly different regiment and had nothing to do with your uncle's.

B. Tschir probably means Bahnhof Tschir (train station Tschir), which was one of the main supply depots of the 6. Armee. Now I don't know for sure but I assume Bahnhof Tschir must be somewhere close to Surowikino or the train station in Surowikino might in fact be identically with Bahnhof Tschir.

[MVisserFrey]

Thanks again! Good to know what the B means! (They could've just simply written Bahnhof instead of B. )
But everything is a lot clearer now to me. So it was indeed the Battle of Stalingrad in which he died, my family has always wanted to know.
I put in the request for information in 2005 and became the information only last week (I can imagine the 'Deutsche Dienstelle' gets a lot of requests)
Got one question left though...what is Surowikino? A place? Does it have anything to do with Nowo Maksimowski (can't find that place on Google Maps, but I've probably got the wrong spelling)...

[NagaSadow]

Hello!

Surowikino is a village where the Tschir meets the Don. It's also the place where the main train line between Rostov and Stalingrad crossed the Tschir. It's about 120km west south west of Stalingrad (Wolgograd).

[MVisserFrey]

Thanks!!!!

[edslunch]

I am just reading Blood Red Snow (I'm not sure the original German name). It is written by a member of the 21st and includes a description of the fighting around Tschir in November 1942. This might be interesting for you if you haven't read it.

[GregSingh]

NagaSadow is right. There was Bahnhof Tschir on the railroad to Stalingrad. And Nowo Maksimowskij is just nearby.
Although back in 1942 river Tschir was entering Don near Nishne Tschirskaja rather than Surowikino (Don dam was completed in 1952).

[wachtmeisterhorst]

What did the insignia look like for this regiment?
Does anyone have a good source for info on the "new" regiment, founded in '43?

[Fegelein!]

What did the insignia look like for this regiment?
Does anyone have a good source for info on the "new" regiment, founded in '43?

According to Wikipedia the insignia of 24th Panzer Division's (which was the 21st Panzergrenadier Regiment once belonged) insignia that they used after 43' was that one