Waffen-SS divisions and Fallschirmjäger?

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cnicoll123
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Waffen-SS divisions and Fallschirmjäger?

#1

Post by cnicoll123 » 22 Apr 2014, 00:14

Hey Guys,

Have had something pondering on my mind for some time, thought you guys would be able to explain and inform me a little more.

Overall, my understanding of the Waffen-SS stems from it being the fighting, armed wing of the SS. Elite troops with specialist training and simply the best: feared and admired by the allies for their skill e.t.c.
Going on the grounds of their elite-status, did any Fallschirmjäger-Division compose, or even exist, with simply Waffen-SS soldiers and personnel? It would seem feesible that the Waffen-SS would deploy skilled soldiers behind enemy lines though Fallschirmjäger training. I am aware both WSS and FJ worked together in the field, especially in France, Normandy and in the Ardennes.

Anyway, hopefully someone can explain a somewhat intriguing question.

Cheers lads!
Connor Nicoll

Grenadier C.Nikel
1st SS Panzer Division "LSSAH" 3.Kp

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Leutnant Lee
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Re: Waffen-SS divisions and Fallschirmjäger?

#2

Post by Leutnant Lee » 22 Apr 2014, 06:27

Lets take this one part at a time.
Overall, my understanding of the Waffen-SS stems from it being the fighting, armed wing of the SS. Elite troops with specialist training and simply the best: feared and admired by the allies for their skill e.t.c.
The Waffen SS started out as the SS-Verfügungstruppe (SS-VT) and the infamous Leibstandarte-SS Adolf Hitler (1. SS-Panzer-Div.) as a sort of professionalization of the many paramilitary SS units leftover from the pre 1933 days. Originally it was only a few Panzerschützen regiments that the army wanted disbanded (a lot of the senior officer corps were not fans of the SS or the preceding SA before them) but the unit was expanded slowly until Hitler decided to renamed the SS-VT to the Waffen-SS (much to Himmler delight). What followed was a mass expansion that grew to a total of 38 divisions (sort of) and the rest is well, history.

The original formation is definitely a contender for "elite status" but post 1942 your average SS-Mann was little different than his Heer counterpart. A majority of SS units tended to be armed with what was available just as the army had to. For example, the Marder II tank destroyer was issued to many SS-Panzerjäger units and it was little more than a captured 76mm field gun on an old Pz II light tank; hardly top of the line equipment. This problem was compounded as SS units tended to have less training combat training and more ideological indoctrination so manpower and equipment losses were often staggering. SS units weren't better trained or particularly more effective per say, they were just more stubborn in the attack and later in the war, on the defense. I would almost argue that many SS formations actually preformed worse than their Heer counterparts just because so many of the poor sods would throw their lives to instead of living to fight another day.

None of this applies to their elite formations such as the 1st SS-Panzer for example, which was armed with the best equipment and frequently got priority over other units for supply, but this applies to the elite army formations as well (Panzer-Grenadier-Division Großdeutschland for example).
Going on the grounds of their elite-status, did any Fallschirmjäger-Division compose, or even exist, with simply Waffen-SS soldiers and personnel? It would seem feesible that the Waffen-SS would deploy skilled soldiers behind enemy lines though Fallschirmjäger training. I am aware both WSS and FJ worked together in the field, especially in France, Normandy and in the Ardennes.
Yes and no, a SS-Fallschirmjäger battalion did exist in the form of the SS-Fallschirmjägerbataillon 500 (much in the same vein as a Fallschirmjäger-Panzer-Division existed; inter-service rivalry) and dropped on Tito's HQ in 1944 but they were used in much of the same way as other German special forces were used (such as the Brandenburgers, 502nd SS-Jäger-Battalion, and SS-Jagdverband Mitte). However, the Waffen-SS itself was more akin to the Marine Corps here in the US, just a service branch that happened to report to Himmler and be a part of the Nazi Party itself.

Hope this answers you question. If your interested in german special forces, I would suggest a look into the Brandenburgers and the Abwehr as they had more of a role than the SS did.


Best wishes, Leutnant Lee


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BillHermann
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Re: Waffen-SS divisions and Fallschirmjäger?

#3

Post by BillHermann » 22 Apr 2014, 10:01

Indeed and there are many threads here debunking the SS "elite" label in a historical sense.

One just has to look the 30 plus divisions and their make up from recruits to equipment and one can say that at least two thirds were anything but elite. Hardly even professional.

Of course from a Nazi perspective the were considered the top due to their political nature but one can not just use Nazi propaganda to make an objective decision.

However when you get thousands of books and web articles that are not objective saying they were best of the best it's hard to see things in any other way.

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Christoph Awender
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Re: Waffen-SS divisions and Fallschirmjäger?

#4

Post by Christoph Awender » 22 Apr 2014, 15:26

Hello,

As said please continue this discussion in the threads already existing
about this topic.

/Christoph

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Marcus
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Re: Waffen-SS divisions and Fallschirmjäger?

#5

Post by Marcus » 24 Apr 2014, 18:29

A long thread discussing the claims of the Waffen-SS being "elite" soldiers can be found at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=190068

/Marcus

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