KTL Wien, 6. Lehrgang, SS-Div. Totenkopf, SS-Pz. Regt. 3

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Freikorps, Reichswehr, Austrian Bundesheer, Heer, Waffen-SS, Volkssturm and Fallschirmjäger and the other Luftwaffe ground forces. Hosted by Christoph Awender.
Post Reply
Knosa
Member
Posts: 6
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 18:12

KTL Wien, 6. Lehrgang, SS-Div. Totenkopf, SS-Pz. Regt. 3

#1

Post by Knosa » 01 Sep 2014, 18:45

Who can help me with these questions (it is for family-research):

1. where and in which way was the SS-Members of the KTL Wien in operation between 1942-45?

Backround:
One of our grandpas were Member of the 6th course of instruction and he told later, that they have to go to the front at the end of war in 1945. He also told us, that he has learned to perform magic from a russian men. But he was after the war in american imprisonment.

Erkennungsmarke: ......... - SS Pz. Ers. Rgt.
Truppenteil: SS-DIV. Totenkopf, SS-Pz. Regt. 3
Dienstgrad: SS-Sturmmann

2. Does anyone know something about "Lager Westmark"?

Background: our Grandma wrotes letters to this Area. But there is no information about that.

Thank you very much for help!!

Reveille
Member
Posts: 3
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 23:45

Re: KTL Wien, 6. Lehrgang, SS-Div. Totenkopf, SS-Pz. Regt. 3

#2

Post by Reveille » 01 Sep 2014, 23:55

Westmark was a gau in Germany near the border with France.
The word 'lager' itself is German for camp, which in turn is a pretty generic term.

I'll see if I can find more for you on both subjects.

Would you like the history of the KTL Wien in general or just the regiment your grandfather served in?


Reveille
Member
Posts: 3
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 23:45

Re: KTL Wien, 6. Lehrgang, SS-Div. Totenkopf, SS-Pz. Regt. 3

#3

Post by Reveille » 02 Sep 2014, 00:33

Made a mistake in my earlier post. Sorry! :D

Once again, Westmark was a gau in Germany, close to the border with France.
'Lager' is German for 'camp'. It's quite generic.
I will try to find more about it.

If I understand correctly now, you would like to know more about where the 3. SS-Division 'Totenkopf' was stationed and doing from 1942 until 1945?

KTL stands for kraftfahrtechnische Lehranstalt. A lehranstalt is a 'school'.
I don't think that the KTL Wien itself went to the front lines.
The 3. SS-Division 'Totenkopf' did ofcourse.

In February 1942, it was fighting the Red Army south of Leningrad, at Demyansk.
They got slaughtered and lost more than half of its strength.
They got pulled back out of the front to France, in which they fought in Case Anton, in November 1942.
The division remained in France until February 1943.
In February 1943, they got back to the Eastern Front in which they participated in the 3rd Battle of Kharkov and later, Operation Citadel (the Battle of Kursk).
After which, they got moved south to the Ukraine.
In April/May, the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto participated in an uprising. A reserve battalion of the 3. SS-Division also participated in it, obviously countering it.
In late 1943, the Soviets managed to break through the lines and pushed the Germans back towards Romania.
In 1944, the Soviets kept pushing the division backwards and by mid-1944, the division was fighting over at Warsaw.
Trying to counter the Soviet march to the west, they attacked the Soviet lines near Budapest.
As the German offensive stalled, the Soviets launched a massive offensive, the Vienna offensive.
The division made a withdrawal to Czechoslovakia and came within the graps of the American army, to which they surrendered, so did your grandfather and therefore he came in American imprisonment.
Last edited by Reveille on 02 Sep 2014, 14:11, edited 1 time in total.

Knosa
Member
Posts: 6
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 18:12

Re: KTL Wien, 6. Lehrgang, SS-Div. Totenkopf, SS-Pz. Regt. 3

#4

Post by Knosa » 02 Sep 2014, 11:06

Dear Reveille,

thank you very much for your quickly Answer!!! Our Grandpa told, that they went out of Vienna and then they came directly into imprisonment. So I think, that he worked for the 3th SS-Division in 1942-43 at KTL. He has said (after the war he had to give a Statement at a judge), that all men of the 6th course in 1942 at KTL are going to the SS "without constaint" ("freiwillig") in 1943.
I have read, that there was also a concentration camp nearby or under order/command of the KTL Vienna. St. Aegidius? Is there a name-list of SS-personal available of KTL or/and the camp? Do you know something? I wrote to the city-Archive of Vienna, but there was no Information available.

"The division made a withdrawal to Czechoslovakia and came within the graps of the American army, to which they surrendered, so did your grandfather and therefore he came in American imprisonment."

Reveille: it is possible, that they came to the "Gau Westmark" nearby the border of France into american imprisonment? Are there informations about camp-names of the american imprisons in Germany?

regards
Knosa

Reveille
Member
Posts: 3
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 23:45

Re: KTL Wien, 6. Lehrgang, SS-Div. Totenkopf, SS-Pz. Regt. 3

#5

Post by Reveille » 02 Sep 2014, 14:49

If he actually worked for the 3. SS-Division in 1942-1943 and got imprisoned during that time, I highly doubt he got in American imprisonment.
The Americans were not even in France at that time. Operation Neptune was not until June 1944 and Operation Dragoon (the invasion of southern France) was not until August 1944.
Therefore, he also couldn't have gotten in American imprisonment in Westmark in the time of 1942-1943.
After the division getting its strength back in France, they went to the Eastern Front in Feb. 1943 and remained there until the end of the war.
As Westmark is not even near the Eastern Front, the only way he could get in American hands there was in 1942-1943 but as said before, the American were not around at that time.
If he got in American hands, it had to be in 1945.

There was indeed a camp at St. Aegidius, it had ties to the KTL Wien.
There were some more camps around that area. A good map that shows it with also some information is this one

I do not know of any names of either the camp or the KTL by head.
I did find this book about the camp. There are missing parts though, like the archives and the interviews.
Names and such are probably in there but I'd guess there are also plenty outside of the archives and interviews.
If you would like to read it, just download it from somewhere or buy it. 10 euro for new, 5 for used.
This book

Knosa
Member
Posts: 6
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 18:12

Re: KTL Wien, 6. Lehrgang, SS-Div. Totenkopf, SS-Pz. Regt. 3

#6

Post by Knosa » 02 Sep 2014, 22:00

Thank you very much for your answer! I' ll have a look for the book and your link you' ve sent to me. I'll write you later, what I have found.
Greetings
Knosa

Knosa
Member
Posts: 6
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 18:12

Re: KTL Wien, 6. Lehrgang, SS-Div. Totenkopf, SS-Pz. Regt. 3

#7

Post by Knosa » 02 Sep 2014, 22:07

Ah I will say:he was not imprisoned in1942/43, but in 1945. He finished his course at KTL in 1942/43 and worked then there.


Knosa
Member
Posts: 6
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 18:12

Re: KTL Wien, 6. Lehrgang, SS-Div. Totenkopf, SS-Pz. Regt. 3

#9

Post by Knosa » 12 Sep 2014, 11:58

Thank you history1!
Actually I have read the book of Christian Rabl about St. Aegid/Neuwalde. I think, that our grandfather worked at KTL to develop Tank-Turbines and at the moment, when russian started his offensive to vienna he had to go to the front with the other persons of the KTL. After the war and imprisonment he worked as a fitter (metal worker) in a concern.
So I will have a look to your links and to the map, which Reveille send to me.

Thank you and I write, if I found something!
greetings to Austria
Knosa

history1
Banned
Posts: 4095
Joined: 31 Oct 2005, 10:12
Location: Austria

Re: KTL Wien, 6. Lehrgang, SS-Div. Totenkopf, SS-Pz. Regt. 3

#10

Post by history1 » 12 Sep 2014, 19:47

You´re welcome, Knosa.

Don´t hesitate to contact the Mauthausen memorial, they are friendly and ready to help.

Knosa
Member
Posts: 6
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 18:12

Re: KTL Wien, 6. Lehrgang, SS-Div. Totenkopf, SS-Pz. Regt. 3

#11

Post by Knosa » 12 Sep 2014, 22:16

Dear history1,
Yes, I will ask at Mauthausen Memorial - also a very good idea! For a view minutes I have posted a message at unterirdisch-forum to Austrian Military History at WWII. I' ll report, if I have further informations.

Good evening!
Knosa

Post Reply

Return to “Heer, Waffen-SS & Fallschirmjäger”