XVII A.K. November 1942

[JC]

XVII A.K. became Amee Abt. Hollidt (Karl Hollidt XVII A.K. commander) in December '42 and controlled various units on the Chir River front opposite Stalingrad in late '42. But where was it prior to that? It is shown as part of 6th Armee in an OOB on 3.10.42 but I don't see it on any OOB after that, not 6th Armee nor 3rd Rumanian Army nor 8th Italian Army.

Anyone know where it was and under what command in November 1942?

Thanks for any help.................Jeff

[GregSingh]

According to Lexicon der Wehrmacht / Tessin:

From 7.Okt zum Verfügung Heeresgruppe B
From 27.Nov zum Verfügung Heeresgruppe Don
From 27.Dec Gruppe Hollidt Heeresgruppe Don

[genstab]

With the schematic O/Bs from the OKH Operations Staff as reproduced in "Die Geheimen Tagesberichte" we can zero in a little further on the XVII AK. In the 23 Nov 42 O/B XVII AK was shown as Gr. Hollidt under 6. Armee. In the 12 Dec O/B it was army-level Angriffsgruppe Hollidt under Hgr. Don. The 1 Jan 1943 O/B showed it as Armeegruppe Hollidt and only on 12 Jan it was shown as Armee Abt. Hollidt.

However, the schematic O/Bs didn't always correspond with the officers' change of titles in their HPA assignment records. According to Bradley, Hollidt became commander of Armee Abt. Hollidt on 23 Nov, Angriffsgruppe Hollidt on 29 Nov (may have been a mistake by the HPA- he then had XXXXVIII. Panzerkorps added to his two Rumanian corps) and again Armee Abt. Hollidt on 27 Dec.

Best regards,
Bill in Cleveland

[JC]

Thanks Greg,

So direct to A/G B hummm............Reserve? Wonder why?

Jeff

[GregSingh]

Reserve? Wonder why?

Perhaps because units under its command were destroyed in Stalingrad battle and only corps command survived?
So until new units become available and German HQ made its mind what to do with it, it stayed in reserve.

[JC]

Two of XVII A.K.'s divisions were transferred to XI A.K., but yeah, generally speaking I expect that's right Greg.

genstab: Does the OB prior to 23.11.42 show XVII A.K. or Gp Hollidt? Do the various OBs show units under Hollidt's command?

Jeff

[Mark V.]

Kehrig's Stalingrad has some further details (p.109). Gen.Kdo. XVII.AK was relieved from the front when the Romanians took over and sent to Belgorod as "Auffrischungsstab". On 17. and 18.11. HG B then redeployed it towards Kupjansk on the 3rd Romanian Army's left wing.

[JC]

Excellent Mark, thanks................Jeff

[genstab]

The 15 Nov 42 O/B also shows HQ XVII AK in reserve under Hgr. B, as does the 5 Nov, 28 Oct, 18 Oct and 8 Oct ones. It was last shown in line under 6. Armee in the 26 Sept O/B, so this was not a sidelining of the Corps HQ because of any losses in the 19 Nov Soviet breakthrough. Any questions anyone wants to ask about what the OKH Op. Abt. O/Bs show at any point of the war about any particular unit or HQ are welcome. While not as good as the NARA HPA records some of you can afford to buy, I have this resource and am willing to share it. That's what the Forum is all about.

Best,
Bill in Cleveland

[JC]

Thanks Bill.

How often are the OKH Op. Abt. O/Bs...monthly...weekly?

Jeff

[genstab]

They varied- it seems whenever someone way up the food chain thought one should be put out. In the 1940 French campaign they started on May 10 and were every few days. By autumn 1940 to spring 1941 when units started to move east. about every ten days and then weekly. After the Russian war started they came out every few days for a while then weekly or about every ten days unless a big battle was going on, through the end of 1943. There were none from January through March 1944. I had to piece those together from Tessin's Army O/Bs for the period. April through July 1944 was monthly. For the rest of the war it was about twice a month.