The heroic resistance of the Hitler Youth at Pichelsdorf bridge, Berlin

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histan
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Re: The heroic resistance of the Hitler Youth at Pichelsdorf bridge, Berlin

#346

Post by histan » 19 Jan 2015, 15:25

To set the scene and place in context the activities on the Western side of the river and the Frey bridge:

"The next day, the 23rd, the encirclement of Berlin entered its final stage" [p 480]

"On the 24th the Russians worked systematically to complete the great circle of steel and fire around Berlin. The battle was lost; it would have been given up but for one man ........Berlin was no Stalingrad. It might hold out, through fanaticism and terror, for a few days, no more" [p481]

"In Berlin eight Soviet armies had begun attacking through the S-Bahn ring on the 26th, after heavy bombings during the previous day and night. By nightfall on the 27th the Russians had cut off Reymann's force in Potsdam and pushed the Berlin defenders into a pocket nine and a half miles long from east to west and from one to three miles wide. On the West the pocket still reached nearly to the Havel River but the Russians hod closed the crossings. In the center, the Soviet armies competed for the honor of taking the Reichstag ...... and had driven in spearheads from the north and south to the edges of the government quarter.
The battle for Berlin was fought outside the city; what went on in the capital was hardly more than a contested mop-up. The fortress had never come into existence. ....... The fighting in Berlin lasted as long as it did because a great metropolis bombed out though it might be and no matter how amateurishly fortified, cannot be quickly taken even against a lame defense, particularly not by troops who know the war is over and intend to see their homes again.
Berlin did not go down, as Hitler had imagined, in a Wagnerian burst of glory but in a ragged wave of destruction and despair." [p488]

All quotes from "Stalingrad to Berlin: The German Defeat in the East", Earl F Ziemke, The US Army Center for Military History (page numbers from the Dover Press edition)

Two points of note:
The battle for Berlin was lost before the HJ were deployed to the bridges.
Closing the crossings does not mean capturing the bridges - it means that the Germans could not travel as Krukenberg had done on 24 April.

Regards

John

Germanicus
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Re: The heroic resistance of the Hitler Youth at Pichelsdorf bridge, Berlin

#347

Post by Germanicus » 19 Jan 2015, 16:57

Histan

Thank you for what you wrote. On the contrary my friend...in relation to [I agree with Mark and plead guilty to suggesting that it might be interesting to look at other fighting.] Please do not apologise, I understand. It would be interesting to look at other fighting in relation to the HJ, if it is compliant with the whole historical position of their involvement in the Havel defences.

I actually got excited when you suggested this, as I recall earlier, that the HJ were not only at the Bridge[s] yet the HJ were defending other sectors which included the Bridge[s], along a defensive line. The Bridge[s] were one aspect of their assignment. Any information that relates to the HJ should be introduced, for that time period, as long as it relates to the Bridge[s] and their purpose for being in that area. Sid commented earlier about the HJ's supply depot. Where were they receiving supplies to defend, would be interesting for example, if this could be determined.

Most respectfully

Mark


sandeepmukherjee196
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Re: The heroic resistance of the Hitler Youth at Pichelsdorf bridge, Berlin

#348

Post by sandeepmukherjee196 » 19 Jan 2015, 17:15

histan wrote:
The battle for Berlin was fought outside the city; what went on in the capital was hardly more than a contested mop-up. The fortress had never come into existence. ....... The fighting in Berlin lasted as long as it did because a great metropolis bombed out though it might be and no matter how amateurishly fortified, cannot be quickly taken even against a lame defense, particularly not by troops who know the war is over and intend to see their homes again.
Berlin did not go down, as Hitler had imagined, in a Wagnerian burst of glory but in a ragged wave of destruction and despair." [p488]


Two points of note:
The battle for Berlin was lost before the HJ were deployed to the bridges.
Closing the crossings does not mean capturing the bridges - it means that the Germans could not travel as Krukenberg had done on 24 April.

Regards

John
Hi Histan..

[*] The Soviet losses were indeed mammoth for a "contested mop up".

[*] The battle for Berlin was lost not just before the HJ were deployed at the bridges but as soon as the Oder was crossed in strength.

[*] The bridges were not closed as per the perception and opinion of the Germans for sure. They made plan after plan for escaping through that route between the 26th and 29th ... specifically on the assurance that the HJ were holding that route open. People who ere involved in making those plans were not HJ teenage fanatics or Waffen SS desperedos.

Ciao
Sandeep

GregSingh
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Re: The heroic resistance of the Hitler Youth at Pichelsdorf bridge, Berlin

#349

Post by GregSingh » 20 Jan 2015, 08:26

Russian translation of Helmut Altner book is here: http://www.litmir.me/br/?b=155608&p=1 (Easily translates to English by Chrome).
Found this map. Sorry! :D
1002568-i_006.jpg
Ruhleben - Soviet's attacks

sandeepmukherjee196
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Re: The heroic resistance of the Hitler Youth at Pichelsdorf bridge, Berlin

#350

Post by sandeepmukherjee196 » 20 Jan 2015, 14:10

[/attachment]
volkssturm-ww2-second-world-war-history-pictures-incredible-amazing-images-photos-001.jpg
http://incredibleimages4u.blogspot.in/2010/04/defending-berlin-in-1945-volkssturm.html
Interesting Pics of HJ ( ? ) in Berlin
Attachments
volkssturm-ww2-second-world-war-history-pictures-incredible-amazing-images-photos-002.jpg
http://incredibleimages4u.blogspot.in/2010/04/defending-berlin-in-1945-volkssturm.html
volkssturm-ww2-second-world-war-history-pictures-incredible-amazing-images-photos-002.jpg (28.8 KiB) Viewed 1297 times

sandeepmukherjee196
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Re: The heroic resistance of the Hitler Youth at Pichelsdorf bridge, Berlin

#351

Post by sandeepmukherjee196 » 20 Jan 2015, 14:43

April 27...." At the late night conference, General Krebs reassured Hitler that the battle lines in Berlin itself were stable again. Hitler Youth units were holding a big bridgehead south of the Pichelsdorf bridge in anticipation of Wenck’s arrival ; isolated trucks from Wenck’s army had already broken through. But the first Russian snipers were roaming Potsdamer Platz and Hitler pointed out : “The subway and streetcar tunnels are a source of danger.” Transport planes with more troops were standing by, but one had just crashed and was blocking the Axis Boulevard. Colonel von Below announced that the first air drops of ammunition had begun."

This is David Irving's : Hitler's War, Eclipse...He quotes as under:

My narrative of the last battle for Berlin is largely based on the war diaries of the General Staff (T78/304) and its annexes (ibid., and T78/305), and of Army Group Vistula (T311/169 and /170); on the private diaries of Martin Bormann, of the Luftwaffe General Karl Koller (ADI[K] Report 348/1945), and of Jodl ; on numerous interrogations and interviews of those concerned ; and on the fragmentary shorthand notes of Hitler’s last staff conferences salvaged by Heinz Lorenz in 1945 and published in Der Spiegel, No. 3, 1966 (their authenticity is established beyond doubt by official British papers I have seen).

Ciao
Sandeep

sandeepmukherjee196
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Re: The heroic resistance of the Hitler Youth at Pichelsdorf bridge, Berlin

#352

Post by sandeepmukherjee196 » 20 Jan 2015, 15:41

The following have been quoted from the After Action reports of SS Pz Abtlng 503, involved in the battle for Berlin
( http://planetarmor.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1448)

" Lothar Tilby; May 1, 1945: The last knock-outs, my tank/crew has knocked out 28 Russian tanks all together.
The Tiger of Untersturmführer Schäfer fom the 1./503 is supporting the troops around the Zoo and has knocked out many enemy tanks. The Tiger II B of Turk was shot to bits during the morning of May 1., and had to be rescued by the Bergepanzer from Unterscharführer Piller, who was later seriously wounded, and sadly taken into Russian captivity. The remaining tank strenght has dwindled to 3 Tiger II B's and a mixture of 6 Panzer - and StuG of SS-PzRgt 11. This number is accomodated by the 6-8 SPW of the SS-PzAufklärungsAbt 11. Massive congestion (traffic jam) around the Charlottenburger Brücke in Spandau. After the "failed" escape attempt up Friedrichstrasse, the next break-out attempt will take place in the direction of Spandau and the West, with the last remaining Tigers of the sSS-PzAbt 503, with the tanks of SS-Obersturmführer Lippert and Untersturmführer Schäfer. Both tanks are to take up positions around the bridge and cover the attack and escapees. The first attack takes place around 8:00a.m.. One Tiger takes point, the other takes up placement on the western bank. Fierce battles break out in Spandau, the break-outs are supported by the Tiger of Schäfer. Schäfer and another tank begin to push foward after a fierce firefight on the Bahndamm from Staaken and then southwards on the Seeburgerstrasse. It is then that they are engaged by a Josef Stalin tank from around 120m distance and a deserted 88mm gun, which had been taken over by the Russians. Both tanks are knocked out. 2 men of Schäfers tank crew don't make it out of the tank, and the 3 others are badly wounded. (Schäfer, who was badly burned, has only recently been able to remember with some detail what exactly happened).

May 3, 1945: ( This date must be a typo.. but I have not taken the liberty to change it here) The next break out takes place during the night with the Tiger II B of Obersturmführer Lippert with support from a FlaK-Vierling and another panzer. Lippert has to destroy his own tank due to a lack of gasoline.

Lothar Tilby: Break-out attempt from Berlin towards the West with the last Panzers of our Battalion. Our tank, commanded by Lippert, and the second by Knights Cross holder Schäfer - from the 3rd Company-. This break out has brought about some of the hardest fighting, the Russians employing an almost godly amount of firepower, causing us to lose a huge number of personell, vehicles and civilians. But similarly causing a massive amount of casualties against our enemies. Schäfer is knocked out during his second attempt, 2 of his men are dead, the rest are badly wounded. Further break-out attempts are worthless, the destruction of our own tank is drawing near, we are now the last tank of the Battalion!!
Major-General Mummert - Commander of PzDiv "Müncheberg", SS-Sturmbahnführer Herzig and Abt-Arzt SS-Hauptsturmführer Dr. Cappell make it on May 5, 1945 to about Ketzin on the Havel. Their group is then uncovered and encircled by the Russians. Only a few are able to break out and make it to the 12th Army, the rest, including Dr. Cappell are presumed dead.

Lothar Tilby: Obersturmführer Lippert disguises himself as an infantryman in his escape attempt towards the west. He is killed by a shot to the head. The high losses of our Battalion can be seen through the tank crews. In Berlin, 6 commanders, 3 radiomen, 2 loaders were used as replacements for men wounded or killed. Only Hans Klöckner and Lothar Tilby were in service from the beginning till the end! "

Ciao
Sandeep
______________

histan
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Re: The heroic resistance of the Hitler Youth at Pichelsdorf bridge, Berlin

#353

Post by histan » 20 Jan 2015, 15:57

Hi Sandeep

"April 27......Hitler Youth units were holding a big bridgehead south of the Pichelsdorf bridge in anticipation of Wenck’s arrival."

The evidence I have looked at so far suggests that this is true. There is evidence to show where the front line was on that date and that the Germans would have held the town of Pichelsdof, which is to the South of the bridge.

With regard to the break out plans. Yes these were not part of the fantasy world of the senior German leadership (Hitler, Krebs, etc). The were plans made by professional soldiers who were Generalstabsoffiziere. They needed the bridges to be intact, which they were until the Frey bridge was blown up on 1 May. On the basis of the evidence, the Russian had blocked to route to the bridges on 27 and 28 April but that they had been forced to withdraw South of the Heer Strasse on 29 April when the route was effectively re-opened and remained so until the blowing up of the Frey bridge forced them to go North.

Regards

John

Germanicus
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Re: The heroic resistance of the Hitler Youth at Pichelsdorf bridge, Berlin

#354

Post by Germanicus » 20 Jan 2015, 17:46

i_008.jpg
i_009.jpg
i_010.jpg
After the break out from Staaken
Last edited by Germanicus on 20 Jan 2015, 18:00, edited 1 time in total.

Germanicus
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Re: The heroic resistance of the Hitler Youth at Pichelsdorf bridge, Berlin

#355

Post by Germanicus » 20 Jan 2015, 17:57

What happened to the Bridge. What happened at the Bridge and the escape to Staaken

Helmut Altner

Berlin 1945. "Dance of Death"

The terrible truth about the Battle of Berlin


Tuesday, May 1, 1945

I put on my helmet and look out onto the street, listening to the sounds of battle. The surrounding houses look as if they cut down the giant saw on the ground floor and the walls collapsed inward and down in the basement. People are trying to wade through piles of bricks with only one purpose - to break out to the west to the Army Wenck, away from Berlin, has turned into a lifeless ruins, one giant graveyard. Driven by fear of panic people run through fire fires. Berlin swept mad dance of death, invisible braid which ruthlessly decimated soldiers and civilians, men and women, old people and children. The street ends, and appears before us a road fork. Here, too, rubble, including the mass of people crowding. Left street goes upstairs to the bridge. It is there that directs the human stream. One after another, people run out of hiding and climbing stairs, running over the bridge. Behind us, the whole crowd grows. Next to me and the other soldiers fleeing women with children in their arms, the older children, old women, teenagers of both sexes. I cautiously looked at the top of the stairs. Russians are still shelling the bridge, which is literally covered with blood. I get scared.

Those who are behind, shouting that we did not detain the movement, and, pressing upon us, pushed forward. Take a deep breath, and I do jerk. We fall under machine-gun fire and end up in a bloody meat grinder, water leaden rain of bullets. The road surface is slippery with blood. Corpses lying on the bridge and hang from the railing. Trucks and tanks are rushing to the other side, with a crunch crushing dead bodies. Rushes forward, seeing nothing, driven by the thought of what you need to quickly run across the bridge.

Pass under the bridge line Skytrain. Along the streets stretch foundations and ruins of burned houses. Before us is a lot of people who are unable to move. Heard the sound of gunfire. In the midst of men see women with bags and backpacks, many of them are children by the hand. Most civilians - are residents of the urban fringe, which rushed to the west, fleeing from the advancing Soviet troops. Some of the soldiers disappeared in the neighboring houses. Suddenly, I notice our company commander Oberfeldwebel with his wife and children. For a brief moment in the crowd glimpsed the face of our lieutenant. Trying to get through to him, elbows paving the way, but I can not, because the street is completely blocked, and I clung to the buildings. Behind the barricade worried human sea. Directly in front of the events begin with astonishing rapidity. Mobile anti-aircraft gun produces a volley at the Town Hall Spandau, where right on the barricade hit the enemy. Bridge over the Havel blown up, its fragments are in the water [136] . Right Skytrain line going from the main train station Spandau runs between buildings and behind the barricade is an underground passage. Enemy fire slightly weakened because of our anti-aircraft bursts that are sent to the other side of the river. Jump over the barricade and run out into the street. On the sidewalk and the roadway are corpses. Hear the crackle of machine-gun bursts and rifle shots. Bullets hiss over my head, glaring at the walls of houses. Finally, I find myself in the underpass where I can catch my breath a little. Located behind my back street is almost empty, only over the barricade from time to time there are soldiers' helmets. Sometimes one runs across the street well, sometimes falls, struck by a bullet.

Over his head again bullets fly. Under the bridge gathered a few soldiers, they have sweaty face. Our company commander Oberfeldwebel and his wife managed to live and safe access to the underpass. Their children, trembling with fear, standing next to them. Suddenly, from somewhere in the alley there is a truck racing right on the bodies of dead and wounded. Split windshield, driver's face contorted and determined to move forward at any cost. When he passed us, we jump out of hiding and hiding behind a car, ran across the street. Begins hell. By machine-gun fire and grenades raining down the walls of houses. We, fortunately, managed to break into a safe place.

Left and right of us solid ruins. The flow of people a little weak, everyone is trying to hide behind the side of the barricades, which remains beyond the reach of enemy fire. Only occasionally individual soldier or civilian runs along the walls of houses, others wait out, hiding in the ruins. I put on my helmet and look out onto the street, listening to the sounds of battle. The surrounding houses look as if they cut down the giant saw on the ground floor and the walls collapsed inward and down in the basement. People are trying to wade through piles of bricks with only one purpose - to break out to the west to the Army Wenck, away from Berlin, has turned into a lifeless ruins, one giant graveyard. Driven by fear of panic people run through fire fires. Berlin swept mad dance of death, invisible braid which ruthlessly decimated soldiers and civilians, men and women, old people and children. The street ends, and appears before us a road fork. Here, too, rubble, including the mass of people crowding. Left street goes upstairs to the bridge. It is there that directs the human stream. One after another, people run out of hiding and climbing stairs, running over the bridge. Behind us, the whole crowd grows. Next to me and the other soldiers fleeing women with children in their arms, the older children, old women, teenagers of both sexes. I cautiously looked at the top of the stairs. Russian is still shelling the bridge, which is literally covered with blood. I get scared.

136

The main railway bridge near the town hall. Havel remained only on bridges and Charlotte Schulenburg that the fighting has passed it to the Germans, by the Russian. Located south of the bridge Frey, involving street Heershtrasse, was blown up the previous evening, when the random Russian shell hit the booth with a previously made explosive device. Breakthrough on the bridge led Charlotte Major Horst Zobel from the 1st Battalion, Panzer Regiment "Müncheberg". Instead of his tank for a better view, he used an armored personnel carrier.

Those who are behind, shouting that we did not detain the movement, and, pressing upon us, pushed forward. Take a deep breath, and I do jerk. We fall under machine-gun fire and end up in a bloody meat grinder, water leaden rain of bullets. The road surface is slippery with blood. Corpses lying on the bridge and hang from the railing. Trucks and tanks are rushing to the other side, with a crunch crushing dead bodies. Rushes forward, seeing nothing, driven by the thought of what you need to quickly run across the bridge.

Fall to the ground and hide behind a concrete pillar. Next to me is dead. Nowhere arising truck crashes into bridge span and blocks a flow path of people and machines. A soldier and a woman hiding under them from enemy fire. Now cross the bridge hit the big guns. I rise to my feet again. I see before me the figures running and then falling people. Nothing feeling run forward, jumping over the bodies of the dead and wounded stepping on. Now everyone is concerned only himself and his own safety. Think of others do not have time. Reaches the edge of the bridge and hide behind the barricade, frantically gasping for air. Bullets whistling over my head, sometimes getting close to people. The number of human figures running across the bridge, every moment is getting smaller. Riddled with bullets and bleeding women with children, girls, boys of the Hitler Youth and the elderly fall, dragging the rest. Death again picks his terrible dancing. Tanks rolled across the bridge, pressing the living and the dead people, turning them into a terrible mess, grinding their tracks human flesh into a bloody mess.

Crosses the street to hide among the ruins of houses, because there are safer, because now the enemy is firing just over the bridge. Some general Luftwaffe [137] already gathers soldiers and anti-aircraft guns calculations. On the bridge, suddenly there was an explosion. This shell hit the truck with ammunition that flashes like a torch. People shouting bounce off him. The span of the bridge collapsing, and people fall in the water already on the other side of the Havel. It seems that once again rend hell.

Crawling, trying to stay close to the ruins of buildings, one after the other. The bridge has now turned into an insurmountable obstacle. We are approaching the town hall on fire Spandau. On the streets there is shooting, enemy fire continues unabated for a minute. Corpses lying around everywhere civilian with white armbands. As candles burn a damaged car. An underground subway station fire, but we still have to run through the fire. Right Line Skytrain, leading to the station Spandau West, left - to blow up the bridge leading to the main train station of Spandau.

Taking weapons at the ready, go past the destroyed buildings. We shoot in the alleys and windows of the houses at the first suspicious movement. Streets goes some civilian with a heavy bag. The soldier stops him. Thundering shot and falls to the ground troops. Civil immediately disappears into the nearest building. Several soldiers rush after him.

Flashes on the street lined with a German tank. The next moment, ammunition explodes. In the air soar fragments, and we rush in all directions.

Above his head the bullets fly. Sometimes in the windows appear and then disappear frightened faces of the locals. Enemy fighter aircraft watering street fire machine guns and cannons, forcing us into the house [138] . Once the enemy planes flew, we go out and move on. However, the fire of enemy artillery does not stop for a minute, and we jump up in the slot-seekers, stretching along the road and abutting on the fence between the houses. We then pokes his head, then hide them in the sand [139] . The trench is gradually filled with other soldiers. Some SS officer is trying to send us into battle to dislodge the enemy from the garden path to our left. However, his threats are vain, because we no longer obey anyone's orders.

Enemy fire weakens a little, and on the street there are familiar faces to me. Lieutenant Shtihler, Stabsfeldwebel Richter with his girlfriend, Blachek and other soldiers from the company to recover. Around us, not only military but also civilian women, children and the elderly, who managed to escape from the hell that broke out on the banks of the Havel. Dance of Death continues and over the tragedy of Berlin curtain falls is still very slow. We make our way towards the still army Wenck, in which we see his final salvation. However, none of us knows what will happen to us after we get to the goal.

Attack Russian fighter aircraft over. We wandered slowly over the houses. Right on the street stretches red brick wall some factories. Buildings behind it no more. Some time later, we again find ourselves in a residential area. Stands at the crossroads of the Waffen-SS armored personnel carrier. Several soldiers are trying to establish a machine gun on his face, but soon die. When you try to run across the field assault team knocked out completely. The soldiers scattered across the neighboring houses, waiting for a ceasefire. Again, notice the face of our lieutenant's factory gate on the other side of the street and ran to him. SS officer said that at the garden plots are only part of Russian supplies. Does he think that we are ready to die for this? Part of our soldiers barracks gathered near the factory gates. Shelling suddenly resumed. We move on, we pass through the halls of the building with a mass of lathes and milling machines. Ceilings gaping huge holes. We pass through a sawmill. The walls of the barns are broken, scattered everywhere newly sawn planks, fresh craters left by the explosions, lie the bodies of those killed. With a roar tread the boards, then we walk on the grass and climb over a low fence. Somewhere in the distance on the right there is a railway line. Approaching the small cottages, surrounded by gardens. We went out to Shtaakenu, area of garden plots [140] . Shelling intensified. Projectile enters the barn, just remaining behind us. In the air soar fragments boards. Soon the shells fall among the trees and paths, enter the house. Dug in the sand cover-gap we face, is full of people. We go into one of the houses and go down to the basement. Follow us fit wounded, they immediately begin to dress. Explosions in the window sash windows were shaking. Basement stairs and packed with people. The air should smell of blood and sweat. Loud baby crying. Outside came the incessant roar of explosions. No longer able to stay in the basement, rises to the top, but do not go out of the house. If the shell hit the basement, then we will turn into a bloody mess. The walls and doors are visible traces of fresh blood. I went into the living room, the door of which is open. The rich decoration shows a good taste of the owners. Windows are broken, the floor littered with shards of glass. From the kitchen is visible to a railway line, for which presumably are Russian.

139

Along with the 125 th Rifle Corps 47th Army in this sector was the 5 th Mortar Regiment of the Polish 1st Brigade mortar.

140

The holiday village Staaken.


We were twenty people coming from Ruhleben. Owners of the house, an elderly couple, bring us chairs and stools. Our parish, apparently frightened them, because the entrance is still hanging white flag. They say that our offensive Russian did not expect. Finds them billeted officer left early in the morning, advising them to drop everything and go. Today he will be back here. I'm not removing the helmet, and quietly to himself fall asleep. Lieutenant Shtihler pulled out his card, unfolds it and explains what we should do. We must reach out Staaken training center in Deberittse. Army Wenck is located outside the village Deberitts, where she took up positions waiting for our arrival. We get a few weeks off. We were accommodated in houses that are prepared for us army Wenck. Doenitz himself Reich president to explain to us the current situation. General Wenck parts in Russian repulsed Potsdam and Nauen.

The room remained not so many young people. Among those who have been called to join me five weeks ago, I see only one Blacheka. Wegner and others somewhere disappeared. We had 150 young people, of which survived only eight. I wonder what happened to the rest? Are they alive?

http://www.litmir.me/br/?b=155608&p=63

sandeepmukherjee196
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Posts: 1524
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Re: The heroic resistance of the Hitler Youth at Pichelsdorf bridge, Berlin

#356

Post by sandeepmukherjee196 » 20 Jan 2015, 19:26

Tiger_2_tank_6.jpg
http://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/tiger2/tiger-2-tank-6/

This is supposed to be a Tiger II tank of Schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung 503 at Berlin in April - May 1945. Tank number 101. I have posted a quote from what is supposed to be an After Action Report of this unit about the Havel - route break out on 2 May.

However from the unit history of this abteilung (http://www.alanhamby.com/unithist.shtml#503), I could not find any mention of the unit's presence at Berlin. At this time this unit was supposed to have been fighting in Austria and Bohemia :


schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503
schwere Panzer-Abteilung Feldherrnhalle (21 December 1944)


16 April 1942 Formed in Neuruppin (WK III) with two companies with personnel from Panzer-Regimenter 5 and 6 for duty in Africa
early August 1942 Transferred to Döllersherim (WK XVII)
December 1942 20 Tigers and 31 PzKpfw III Ausf. Ns received [Jentz 2 claims only 25 PzKpfw III]
1 January 1943 Arrived in Eastern Front, Stavropol ara
9 January 1943 2 Tigers are lost in action
10 January 1943 2 Tigers are lost, written off (both Tigers were sent back to Germany, one Tiger was used as a memorial at Kummerdorf, Tiger "141")
14 January 1943 2./s.Pz.Abt. 502 attached
17 January 1943 1 Tiger is lost, destroyed by crew
22 February 1943 1 Tiger is lost in action. 2./s.Pz.Abt. 502 redesignated 3./s.Pz.Abt. 503 [Jentz 2 claims 10 February]
10 March 1943 2 Tigers are lost, written off
31 March 1943 10 Tigers arrive
11 April 1943 Transferred to the Kharkov area
20-30 April 1943 14 Tigers delivered, 45 on strength
10 May 1943 All PzKpfw IIIs transferred to other units
1 July 1943 42 of 45 Tiger I's operational
5 July 1943 Operation Zitadelle (Battle of Kursk) commences, Abt. split up between three panzer divisions against the battalion commander's advice
7 July 1943 3 Tigers are lost in action
10 July 1943 2 Tigers are lost in action
12 July 1943 1 Tiger is lost in action
14 July 1943 1 Tiger is lost in action
31 July 1943 9 of 38 Tigers operational
13 August 1943 1 Tiger is lost in action
17 August 1943 Abt. claimed destruction of 385 tanks, 4 assault guns and 265 AT guns since 5 July
22-23 August 1943 12 Tigers delivered, 49 on hand
24 August 1943 1 Tiger is lost in action
29 August 1943 2 Tigers are lost, written off
30 August 1943 7 Tigers are lost, written off
31 August 1943 1 Tiger is lost, written off (after being fired on by StuGs and lost in action)
1 September 1943 1 Tiger is lost in action
13 September 1943 1 Tiger is lost, destroyed by crew
30 September 1943 4 Tigers are lost, written off
30 October 1943 4 Tigers are lost in action
11 November 1943 7 Tigers are lost in action
20 December 1943 3 Tigers are lost, written off
3 January 1944 45 new Tigers arrive, but 1 is a total loss due to engine fire, 69 on hand
19-20 January 1944 Transferred to the Vinnitsa area and subordinated to schwere Panzer-Regiment Bäke
27 January 1944 1 Tiger is lost, written off ("332" is lost in action by a Panther from "LAH")
29 January 1944 2 Tigers are lost, destroyed by crew
2 February 1944 Assigned to III. Panzerkorps for the Cherkassy (Korsun) Pocket relief attempt
12 February 1944 4 Tigers are lost in action
15 February 1944 1 Tiger is lost, written off
18 February 1944 Attempt successful, 56 Tigers on hand. 4 Tigers are lost, destroyed by crew (among them "100", "121" and "123" )
25 February 1944 8 Tigers are written off. Schwere Panzer-Regiment Bäke dissolved, 9 Tigers received, 57 on hand
1-2 March 1944 Transferred to Proskurov area and 7 Tigers received from s.Pz.Abt. 506
8 March 1944 2 Tigers are lost in action ("113" is one of them)
14 March 1944 1 Tiger is lost in action ("133")
15 March 1944 1 Tiger is lost, captured ("121")
21 March 1944 1 Tiger is lost, destroyed by crew ("101")
22 March 1944 4 Tigers are lost, destroyed by crew ("131", "132", "213 " plus "3##")
29 March 1944 1 Tiger is lost in action
30 March 1944 24 Tigers are lost, 1 lost in action, 23 captured (21 lost while under repair some of which can be seen as "destroyed by crew", 2 lost in a river crossing attempt)
Mar-April 1944 Trapped in Hube's Pocket, only 7 Tigers on strength when relieved
4 April 1944 1 Tiger is lost, written off ("314" used for parts)
5 April 1944 1 Tiger is lost, destroyed by crew ("100")
7 April 1944 5 Tigers are lost in action
22 April 1944 22 Tigers are lost in action or destroyed by crew (in the Hube Pocket, most Tigers being destroyed by crew)
May 1944 Tigers turned over to s.Pz.Abt. 509 and transferred to Ohrdruf (WK IX) to be rebuilt
11-17 June 1944 Rebuilt with 33 Tiger I's, 12 Tiger IIs
26 June-7 July 1944 Transferred to France
18 July 1944 3./ is bombed during Operation Goodwood, but only two Tigers are lost, one burnt out and the other was flipped over by a near miss. 13 Tigers lost during the day to all causes
20-29 July 1944 3./ ordered to Mailly-le-Camp for re-equipment with Tiger IIs
12 August 1944 3./ entrains for Paris
mid-August 1944 Most of 3./ destroyed by Allied fighter-bombers, all of the rest of the Abt. is destroyed during the retreat from Normandy, only 2 Tiger IIs of 3./ on strength
September 1944 Ordered to Paderborn for re-equipment with Tiger IIs
19 September 1944 - 22 September 1944 Equipped with 45 Tiger IIs, 47 on hand
12-14 October 1944 Ordered to Budapest, Hungary
18 October 1944 Transfer to Szolnok
22 October 1944 Abt. claims destruction of 1500(!) tanks thus far and 120 AT guns since 19 October
15 March 1945 Budapest area with 26 Tiger IIs of which 19 are operational
April 1945 Withdrawal into Austria, 12 Tigers lost during the retreat
May 1945 Retreat into Bohemia


Can anyone please help clear this riddle?


Ciao
Sandeep

Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 8251
Joined: 07 May 2002, 20:40
Location: Teesside

Re: The heroic resistance of the Hitler Youth at Pichelsdorf bridge, Berlin

#357

Post by Michael Kenny » 20 Jan 2015, 19:39

Very simple mistake.

One is:

s SS Pz Abt 503

and the other:

s Pz Abt 503

It is the extra 'SS' in the title.

http://www.alanhamby.com/unithist.shtml#SS103

Try this


https://server16040.contentdm.oclc.org/ ... me=305.pdf

sandeepmukherjee196
Member
Posts: 1524
Joined: 07 Aug 2014, 06:34

Re: The heroic resistance of the Hitler Youth at Pichelsdorf bridge, Berlin

#358

Post by sandeepmukherjee196 » 20 Jan 2015, 20:18

I found the following mention of SS Pz Abtlng 503, fighting in Berlin and joining the breakout over the Havel in an article on the Panzer Div Muncheberg
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_Div ... BCncheberg)

" On 30 April, Hitler committed suicide. The Müncheberg, 18th Panzergrenadier Division along with a few Tiger IIs from schwere-SS-Panzer-Abteilung 503 were engaged in heavy fighting near the Westkreuz and Halensee train stations and on the Kurfurstendamm. By 1 May the division had been pushed back to the Tiergarten and was fighting to defend the Zoo Flak Tower, the shelter of thousands of civilians. The Müncheberg's last operating panzer, a Tiger 1, was abandoned on the Unter den Linden straße a hundred metres from the Brandenburg Gate.

Mummert was determined to lead the survivors of his division in an escape to the west, through the suburb of Spandau. Ignoring Weidling's calls for a cessation of hostilities, Mummert ordered the breakout attempt to get underway. Late in the day he went missing during heavy fighting, surfacing years later in a Soviet Gulag. ( In my recent post quoting the SS Pz Abtleilung's report, Mummert's possible fate at Ketzin has been mentioned ). The remnants of 18th Panzergrenadier joined the escape attempt, and both divisions attempted to battle their way to the west and surrender to the Americans. By 3 May the divisions had reached the Charlottenbrücke crossing the Havel River in Spandau. The bridge was under heavy Soviet artillery fire, but the few survivors of the Müncheberg attempted to cross the carnage of the bridge. Those who made it across the bridge found that they were surrounded by the Soviets, and on 5 May the division, which was now the last organized formation in Berlin, disintegrated.

Several small groups of men had managed to reach the Americans, but the majority of the survivors faced an uncertain fate in Soviet captivity."

sandeepmukherjee196
Member
Posts: 1524
Joined: 07 Aug 2014, 06:34

Re: The heroic resistance of the Hitler Youth at Pichelsdorf bridge, Berlin

#359

Post by sandeepmukherjee196 » 20 Jan 2015, 20:38

Michael Kenny wrote:Very simple mistake.

One is:

s SS Pz Abt 503

and the other:

s Pz Abt 503

It is the extra 'SS' in the title.

http://www.alanhamby.com/unithist.shtml#SS103

Try this


https://server16040.contentdm.oclc.org/ ... me=305.pdf
Thanks Michael...I had by mistake gone to the unit history of the Schwer Panzer Abtlng 503 i.e., Heavy Panzer battalion.. Whereas it was the Schwere SS Pz Abtlng 503 which fought in Berlin ; Its brief history is to be found on Axis History.com :

(http://www.axishistory.com/various/122- ... g-103--503)

The Schwere SS-Panzer Abteilung 103 was formed in November 1943 and fought as infantry in Yogoslavia until January 1944 when it was sent to Holland.
It was refitted with with Tiger II (Köningstiger) tanks in September 1944 and redesignated Schwere SS-Panzer Abteilung 503.
It was attached to Heeresgruppe Weichsel and sent to the Eastern front Jan 1945.


Commanders

SS-Sturmbannführer Otto Paetsch (1 July 1943 - 4 Feb 1944)
SS-Obersturmbannführer Karl Leiner (4 Feb 1944 - 18 Jan 1945)
SS-Sturmbannführer Friedrich Herzig (18 Jan 1945 - 8 May 1945)


Area of operations

Yugoslavia (Nov 1943 - Jan 1944)
Holland (Jan 1944 - Sep 1944)
Germany (Sep 1944 - Jan 1945)
Eastern front (Jan 1945 - May 1945)


Campaign New issue Transfers in Transfers out Combat loss Type of tank
Eastern Front 10 6 16 0 Tiger I
Eastern Front 33 6 0 39 Tiger II


Holders of high awards

Holders of the Knight's Cross (4)
- Bromman, Karl 29.04.1945 SS-Untersturmführer Führer 1./s.SS-Pz.Abt 503
- Herzig, Friedrich (Fritz) 29.04.1945 SS-Sturmbannführer Kdr s.SS-Pz.Abt 503
- Körner, Karl 29.04.1945 SS-Hauptscharführer Zugführer i. d. 2./s.SS-Pz.Abt 503
- Schäfer, Oskar 29.04.1945 SS-Untersturmführer Führer 3./s.SS-Pz.Abt 503


Notable members

Karl Bromann (usually credited with 66 destroyed tanks but the exact number is unknown)
Karl Köner (usually credited with 100+ destroyed tanks but the exact number is unknown)
Karl Leiner (son in law of Theodor Eicke)


Sources used

Ron Klages - Trail of the Tigers
Wolfgang Schneider - Tigers in combat (2 vol)

Ciao
Sandeep

histan
Member
Posts: 1668
Joined: 14 Jan 2008, 18:22
Location: England

Re: The heroic resistance of the Hitler Youth at Pichelsdorf bridge, Berlin

#360

Post by histan » 21 Jan 2015, 01:14

Mark

I think the section beginning "Pass under the bridge line Skytrain" refers to 2 May. Footnote 136 then suggests that the Frey bridge was destroyed on 1 May as suggested in previous posts. Unfortunately, he was not there as an eyewitness and does not say when he found out this information and who told him.

Equally interesting is the following quote from the same source
"Contrary to what he wrote in his memoirs Marshal Zhukov, the hallmark of the fighting in Berlin was that his troops were almost stopped fighting at night to relax and enjoy the fruits of victory."
and another section where he mentions a Russian tank with a white flag attempting to persuade the Germans to surrender.

Evidence that the Russians were in no great hurry to mop up all the German resistance, were happy to stop and rest, and did not attack at every opportunity.

Regards

John

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