12. SS-Panzer-Division "Hitlerjugend" Photo

[Grond]

Hello Friends,

I have seen this photo on the internet and always wondered who was this SS Soldier,his story,his fate etc
I know its a very slim chance but does anyone have information on his story?

Kind regards

.

[eindhoven]

The image you have posted has been manipulated and altered. The side by side are posted here.

He is likely from the Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment 25 of 12. SS-HJ captured by the 3rd Canadian Infantry Division during the fighting for Authie and Franqueville. Other than a general time frame and location based on when the photograph was taken he is just another nameless prisoner.

[Michael Kenny]

June 11th 1944 Normandy


http://youtu.be/6fOi6EVobxI?t=3m42s


http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79255

[jrutman53]

Inigmatic picture. Sums up the 12th SS experience in Normandy. Young idealistic kid,captured, roughed up and most of his buddies dead. Extreme waste.
This image was used for inspiration in a scene from the new movie"Fury" although the 4 pocket pea pattern jacket was turned into an overall. The image is hard to dispute. It concerned a POW that was being led through the American camp,incensing the old timers.
J
J

[sandeepmukherjee196]

June 11th 1944 Normandy


http://youtu.be/6fOi6EVobxI?t=3m42s


http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79255

Why is this clip included in a You Tube site named US and Canadian in Troops in Anzio ( 1944)?

[Michael Kenny]

Its part of the PATHE Newreel collection that is hosted on YouTube. The footage is 'unused/unissued' which means they have no paperwork with it so they guess. Sometimes they guess wrong.
I used to put the correct captions on these films but since they now force you to sign up for Google+ before you can comment I have left them to their ignorance.

[Maxschnauzer]

Here is one of the pics which are apparently no longer viewable from the old thread Michael Kenny referenced in his 17 Dec post:

[jrutman53]

Thanks for the new pic.
I know from the statement earlier that they guessed for the caption but that is a pretty spectacularly wrong guess. Uphill battle though.
J

[eindhoven]

Here are some more of this sequence putting a different light to this beloved photo of revisionists as to allied brutality.

The descriptions of hand to hand combat in this area are also of note. Apparently people who have never served don't understand what the butt of a rifle will do to a face in close quarters combat.

[jrutman53]

Well,I for one,am no revisionist. But there are people like me that believe that not every German soldier was a fiendish killer and also not every Allied soldier was a saint.
These soldiers of both sides were just regular people for the most part and it is us modern folks looking at these pictures that assign the brutality to whatever side fits our view.
We don't know what really happened to this kid either way. The pic showing the water bottle given to the kid doesn't prove he wasn't roughed up by some one else beforehand just as it doesn't prove he was just being humanely treated after being wounded and captured.
I have seen though,actual film of GIs shooting an unarmed POW just as I have seen film of Germans shooting unarmed people.
Just trying to keep it real.
J

[Sheldrake]

One of the German members of the academic staff at RMA Saundhurst has been studying the Heer and SS in Normandy and gave a presentation to the BCMH a couple of years ago.

One observation was that the SS were more likely to be the perpetrators and victims of war crimes. There were allegations of war crimes against all of the SS formations in Normandy apart from 10SS. There were no allegations against any Heer formations. The proportion of SS"Missing" who ended up dead was much higher than for the Heer, with the implication that many SS men were killed on capture.

[Tom from Cornwall]

Sheldrake,

Wasn't it Heer formations that committed atrocities against 6th Airborne Division prisoners?

Additionally, is it possible that the higher proportion of KIA for WSS formations might have been largely due to a refusal to surrender rather than to Allied war crimes.

Cheers

Tom

[BillHermann]

A beaten photo of any soldier does not suggest a war crime or poor treatment. The injuries as stated before could have happend in a number of ways. The bigger issue is why does this photo cause so much strong emotion of defence of the Waffen-SS when photos of beaten soldiers from other armies do nothing.

One would think that emotions would be even stronger with civilians.

[Marcus]

Get back on topic. This is not the thread do discuss other war crimes than the one shown in the photo, it does not matter if they were Axis or Allied war crimes.
A few posts were removed. We have threads on most areas related to war crimes in this section, please feel free to continue the discussions in one of the relevant threads or start a new one if you want to discuss an aspect not already covered.

/Marcus

[David Thompson]

A frivolous post from Michael Kenny, which added nothing of factual interest to the discussion, was removed - DT.