Jochen Peiper's last defence

[Dwight Pruitt]

[Split from "The Military Successes of the Waffen-SS"]
Can Jochen Peiper's last defence of his last home in Traves, France, circa July 13-14,1976, be considered a Waffen SS success?.. Maybe the last Waffen SS action in history ?

Let's assume that your assertion that Peiper's last hours were indeed "the last Waffen-SS action in history." How in the world can it be considered a success? The attacking force wiped out Peiper, burned his home, suffered no reported casualties and was never caught. Only in the world of Waffen-SS fanbois could this be considered a success.

[Annelie]

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=27483

There are some interesting observations from this thread that might be an
contribution to this thread?

I also remember once watching an history channel episode where they alluded to
what this article states.

http://www.jta.org/1976/07/19/archive/p ... ss-colonel

[sandeepmukherjee196]

Thanks Annelie .. I have indeed gone through the past threads on AHF about Peiper. Btw there is something else I wanted to discuss with you about good books on the last days of Hitler.... maybe we should do that on the Hitler survived / suicide thread..

Ciao
Sandeep

[Harro]

However the Waffen SS was not a normal military organisation of a normal Nation at a normal time. There was an innate Nihilism and a touch Zen philosophy which accompanied their whole ethos. As if they were born and bred for hopeless last stands.....as if for them the "journey was the destination.."

Must be why during the last days of the Reich the Leibstandarte desperately tried to escape annihilation by the Red Army to surrender to the Americans and why Peiper tried to evade American captivity.

he did what a typical Waffen SS fighter with loyalty and honour would do under those circumstances

Well, in 1945 he did not and his motives and actions in 1976 are all interpretation because basically we don't actually know for sure what happened, how it happened and what his part was in the events the night he died. Perhaps our battle-hardened SS colonel believed that two dogs and a gun would be enough enough to scare them off or beat them, perhaps he did not know they would come to the house that night, perhaps he didn't want to survive, who can tell.

[seaburn]

And if , as some say, he actually got away with it, by faking his death..( though it beats me whose corpse he left behind).. then that too was a hell of a success !

Whatever happened that night, the theory of faking his death is the most tenuous as there is practically zero evidence to support it. Perhaps there were suspicions from the start that the scene was staged - there was a lot of rumour and innuendo about the body - but that's all it was, rumour and half assed conjecture. The circumstantial evidence only points to probable murder or suicide with a possibility of manslaughter/accidental death IMO. Body switching and disappearing into the night is a leap into the ridiculous.

'Culticon' As you say 95% of the book is about his personal life - but the points you raise were made before in Jens Westemeier's book and no doubt there will be references to them in DP's as they worked and researched closely together in the past - I need to re-read the book again and this time at my leisure as the first time round it was done under pressure of a very short deadline to get back to DP with my observations on each page, this meant I was looking at smaller details than the overall story.

'Annelie' - thanks for the old link, I had seen it before and was amused by the 'colourful' discussions of old, I had toyed with reviving it again for this discussion but 'sandeepmukherjee196' beat me to it with this thread. Interesting newspaper article also, they seem to be making a 'Jewish' connection initially, this has never really been aired since I believe.

'sandeepmukherjee196' I've seen varied posts here on the forum and elsewhere on this event but even the most extremist pro-Peiper ones have never interpreted what happened that night as a 'Military success for the WSS' - but I appreciate you posting it as it provokes discussion and debate and livens things up around here IMO.

[sandeepmukherjee196]

However the Waffen SS was not a normal military organisation of a normal Nation at a normal time. There was an innate Nihilism and a touch Zen philosophy which accompanied their whole ethos. As if they were born and bred for hopeless last stands.....as if for them the "journey was the destination.."

Must be why during the last days of the Reich the Leibstandarte desperately tried to escape annihilation by the Red Army to surrender to the Americans and why Peiper tried to evade American captivity.

he did what a typical Waffen SS fighter with loyalty and honour would do under those circumstances

Well, in 1945 he did not and his motives and actions in 1976 are all interpretation because basically we don't actually know for sure what happened, how it happened and what his part was in the events the night he died. Perhaps our battle-hardened SS colonel believed that two dogs and a gun would be enough enough to scare them off or beat them, perhaps he did not know they would come to the house that night, perhaps he didn't want to survive, who can tell.

The LSSAH was ordered to surrender .. They chose whom to surrender to.

(Peiper's) Trying to evade enemy captivity amounts to cowardice?

Perhaps the "battle hardened SS Colonel" enjoyed being killed and burned to a cinder? Like lively springtime fun?

[Marcus]

Several posts dealing with his war time service and abilities were moved to the existing thread at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 7#p1915557
Please keep this thread focused on his death.

/Marcus

[Harro]

The LSSAH was ordered to surrender .. They chose whom to surrender to. (Peiper's) Trying to evade enemy captivity amounts to cowardice?

Neither the Leibstandarte nor Peiper opted for the hopeless last stand you claim they were "born and bred" for, yet you are willing to believe that 30 years later Peiper felt destined to go down in "pitched battle" against some troublemakers who handed out leaflets and chalked some nasty slogans on the road. Food for thought.

[sandeepmukherjee196]

The LSSAH was ordered to surrender .. They chose whom to surrender to. (Peiper's) Trying to evade enemy captivity amounts to cowardice?

Neither the Leibstandarte nor Peiper opted for the hopeless last stand you claim they were "born and bred" for, yet you are willing to believe that 30 years later Peiper felt destined to go down in "pitched battle" against some troublemakers who handed out leaflets and chalked some nasty slogans on the road. Food for thought.

A military, organised last stand, requires just that i.e., organisation and institutional sanction / mandate. If the German State hierarchy mandated a last stand in the Alpenfestung instead of capitulation, the LSSAH and other formations may have done just that. We saw that at Berlin, as long as the No Surrender Last Stand order held sway, most Waffen SS ( and many others ) men stayed at their hopeless posts. Once the breakout order and the subsequent surrender order came, some shot themselves, others tried to escape and most were taken alive. But had the order to hold on remained in force, most were willing to go under with the ship.

In 1945, Peiper was 30. With a possible life ahead, if he survived the immediate aftermath. He tried to escape and live on his own terms. Once he was taken alive and made to stand trial, he went on record that he was willing to take responsibility on behalf of his men. He knew what that meant ( he would most likely swing for it). That he was released was not his fault.

By 1976 he had been put through the wringer by post war life..trial..torture..death sentence...persistent hounding by all and sundry. When he thought that he was finally away from all that, in his private nook, self employed..came Sigurd's cancer and then the commie (and others) stalking and threats. he faced the prospect of losing it all once more, at 61. If he left with Sigurd for Germany..his home would be burnt and ...well at some point a guy says .."what the hell.." and snaps perhaps?

[Harro]

That he was released was not his fault.

I must admit that this made me chuckle.

By 1976 he had been put through the wringer by post war life..trial..torture..death sentence...persistent hounding by all and sundry. When he thought that he was finally away from all that, in his private nook, self employed..came Sigurd's cancer and then the commie (and others) stalking and threats. he faced the prospect of losing it all once more, at 61. If he left with Sigurd for Germany..his home would be burnt and ...well at some point a guy says .."what the hell.." and snaps perhaps?

"By 1976, Peiper [...] enjoyed the solitude but considered leaving France because his wife was severely ill, and suffered mentally from the isolation; she missed the children and grandchildren. In any case, his plan for a new change of residence did not have anything to do with upcoming events, as final as they would become."
Westemeier, page 187

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi sandeep,

You write, "It couldnt have possibly ended with the capitulation of the German govt., a la the other wings of the Wehrmacht."

But it did.

I know of no pro-active, organized military actions by the residual Waffen-SS after May 1945. Do you?

From then on it was sauve qui peut.

Cheers,

Sid.

[sandeepmukherjee196]

Hi Sid,

" Hi sandeep,

You write, "It couldnt have possibly ended with the capitulation of the German govt., a la the other wings of the Wehrmacht."

But it did.

I know of no pro-active, organized military actions by the residual Waffen-SS after May 1945. Do you?"


I had said that in terms of the ethos, the attitude and indoctrination of ex Waffen SS men... that would not necessarily and normally translate into armed resistance, post war. I think the German National character isnt about cloak and dagger stuff, or autonomous guerrilla struggle. Unlike the Japanese Bushido..that fed so many post war, small band / individual stay behind actions all over SE Asia.

Having said that, I would highly recommend to anyone interested in last ditch / post war German guerrilla resistance, Perry Biddiscombe's : The Last Nazis: SS Werewolf Guerrilla Resistance in Europe 1944-1947 . It is an excellent and well researched work on Werewolf activities ( some of it SS) towards the end of WW II and beyond. Its not a keeper of the flame kind of propaganda work by any stretch of imagination. Its objective, painstakingly researched and reveals that not all werewolf activities were limited to wild graffitis and stone throwing.As I said some of it is about SS personnel.

Ciao
Sandeep

[Marcus]

Get back on topic.

/Marcus

[seaburn]

Thanks for your reply Seaburn! I look forward to continuing the conversation post Christmas!

You sure know how to keep a lady waiting !

[Rob - wssob2]

Regarding the last defense of Peiper, the first point I’d like to make is that I found author Danny Parker’s investigation into the last month’s of Peiper’s life and violent death masterful. His prose combines the qualities of the best historical narrative (think Barbara Tuchman, William Manchester) with tautness and dread (think Edgar Allen Poe or H.P. Lovercraft).

I know with that description above I’m at risk of sounding hyperbolic, and Parker on at least one of the amazon.com review has been accused of writing in a overly “soap operatic” style, but let me assure you I found his work incredibly well-grounded in fact. Any descriptions of emotional states or behavior typically include a footnote citing an interview, letter or other document to back up the assertion. Although military history done in a Tom Wolfe “new journalism” style may be off-putting to some people, I found it compelling and a fitting method to present the pathos and complexity of Peiper’s character.

A couple of observations:

1. By 1974 Peiper was essentially living like a hermit, showing signs of “malaise” (p.253) that increased dramatically during the summer of 1976 when the French Communist newspaper published an expose on him living in Traves.

2. Piper gave one interview to a French journalist during the summer of 1976 imbroglio. Frankly, it was a complete disaster. Perhaps in this media-saturated age we are more savvy and cynical, but Peiper showed no tactical skill at manipulating the press, coming across as an angry, defensive, curmudgeonly, unrepentant Nazi. Had he expressed a bit of remorse, regret, or even sympathy for French victims of Nazi rule the interview could have helped diffuse the situation. Instead, he exacerbated it.

3. I won’t drop any “spoilers” lest any AHF readers want to pick up the book, but I will say that the specific circumstances of his death are enigmatic to say the least. There is a slew of confusing and contradictory evidence regarding bullet trajectories, open windows, sleeping, suspicious neighbors, cut fences, unburned copies of Mein Kampf, and reticent teenage ne’er-do-wells. Anyone who thinks Peiper died in a blaze of glory battling Commie insurgents will have their assumptions challenged. The case is, in fact, still unofficially solved. Where is Hercule Poirot when you need him?

4. Re-reading the last chapters last night, I kept thinking about the old Robert Johnson blues song “Hellhound on my Trail” and thinking about the correlations between Third Reich “denial” and psychological denial.

If Peiper was a hunted man, then he was most hunted by the demons of his past in his head. He attempted to write a “balanced” biographical history of the Malmedy in the last months of his life, only to be rebuffed by his LSSAH colleagues when he asked for support. After years of lying, excuse-making and playing the victim, he was a manipulative guy running out of options, worn down by a world demanding that he face up to a past that he himself seemed incapable of confronting.

Peiper was unwilling or incapable of accepting and professing his ringside seat at the mechanizations of Third Reich tyranny. He repeatedly claimed to be simply a soldier yet was unable to accept that his military career was neither simple nor soldierly in the best sense of the tradition. He could never repudiate his admiration for the Third Reich, despite knowing post 1945 all the horrors it spawned. Having attempted a postwar career after prison, the past came back to haunt him, but because he never truly dealt with it on a personal level, it kept coming back, stronger and more vengeful, even when he assumed the guise of a philosophy-reading, dog-loving, wood-chopping hermit. So when the hot summer of 1976 arrived and the allegations of L’Humanite came out, they found Peiper isolated physically and psychologically, anxious, depressed and possibly suicidal.


I’ve got to keep on riding/Blues falling down like hail
And the day keeps on reminding me
There’s a hellhound on my trail...