Inf.Div. neuer Art and 44. Orders, dates and content?

[jpz4]

Simply briliant Piet! Very, very interesting!

Two minor things:
1) Looks like your last post is included twice. You might want to empty one of them, this thread is very busy already.

2) OKH/GenStdH/Org.Abt. Nr. 15229/44 g. Kdos. v. 19.1.44 (H36/ 153, 73) refers to another order:
OKH/GenStdH/Org.Abt. Nr. I/15013/44 g.Kdos. v. 2.1.1944. This seems to be the 'start' of the Pz.Jäg.Abt. of the 349., 352. and 353.Inf.Div., since most parts were specifically left out in OKH/GenStdH/Org.Abt. Nr. 4367/43 g. Kdos. II. Ang. v. 6.11.43.

[Piet Duits]

The reason for the double posting is because several of the Inf.Div. n.A. orders and several of the orders for the creation of the Inf.Div. 21. Welle were the same. This is also valid for the 22. Welle, and partially for the 25. Welle too.

Because of the amount of work in retyping all the orders, I often only put the name, date and number of the specific order including the source.

[jpz4]

What I mean is that this thread has two posts from you at '04 Feb 2015 10:01' that seem 100% identical.
Or am I missing something?

[Piet Duits]

Yes, they are not the same. The first post were the general ID n.A. orders, the 2nd was about the Inf.Div. 21. Welle.

[jpz4]

Sorry about that, must have screwed up the copy-paste on this website: http://text-compare.com/
Will try again.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 5#p1926721
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 5#p1926722

[RandJS]

Hi Guys,

Interesting thread! I am researching the 30th Wellen. Does anyone have any information/statistics they are willing to share regarding this wave?

Thanks,
Rand

[Piet Duits]

Rand, that is one of my interests too. What is it you want? What are you researching exactly?

[RandJS]

Hi Piet,

I am looking for manpower statistics for each part of the divisions, KSTN's etc. Don't need the specific creation orders. Anything regarding 12 VGD would especially be appreciated!
Many thanks,
Rand

[RandJS]

Hi All,

Is this the correct formation for 30th Welle?

Div HQ: 227
Inf Regts: 6024 (2008x3)
Fus Btl: 708
PzJgrAbt: 484
Arty Regt: 2451/2013
Pio Btl: 620
Sig Btl: 279
Feld Btl: 925/1025
DivServRegt: 1459

Any comments/corrections are appreciated,

Rand

[Gary Kennedy]

Those are broadly similar to a decent summary for the Type44 Inf Div -

Div HQ (plus Map and MP dets); 227
Three Inf Regts (total); 5961
Fus Bn; 708
Atk Bn; 484 (or 513?) assuming Bn HQ, 9 towed (or 12 towed) atk guns, Stug unit and 2-cm Flak Coy
Arty Regt; 2013 (based on 42 guns)
Pio Bn; 620
Sig Bn; 379
Replacement Bn; 925
Div Services; 1455
Total; 12,801

Gary

[Piet Duits]

I have different numbers.
My source is BAMA RH 2 / 1293.

Kdo. = 24/9/82/102 = 217
Gren.Rgt. 1, 2, 3, each = 46/6/292/1.431 = 1.775
Füs.Kp. = 3/-/24/128 = 155
Pz.Jäg.Kp. = 3/-/44/72 (davon 5 Hw) = 119
Fla.Kp. = 2/-/28/115 (davon 19 Hw) = 145
Art.Rgt. = 67/8/327/1.063 (davon 101 Hw) = 1.465
Pi.Kp. = 3/-/32/192 (davon 20 Hw) = 227
Nachr. = 6/1/35/132 = 174
Div.Kampfschule = 5/-/20/5 (davon 5 Hw) = 30
Vers.Rgt. = 36/10/161/901 (davon 229 Hw) = 1.138

Totals for a "regular" Gren.Div. der 30. Welle =
257 Offiziere
46 Beamten
1.634 Unteroffiziere
6.933 Mannschaften, davon 379 Hw
8.900 total strength.

The 12. Infanterie-Division had a different organization.

[schwarzermai]

Hello

i'm searching about Infanterie-Schallmess-Trupps

starting in 1942 it were try to created for most of the divisions their own trupp

please check my overview about here
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... derung.htm

but i cant find the trupps in the "Mustergliederungen" and "Stärkeberechnungen" at all Divisions-types...

any idea?

thank you
Uwe

[Piet Duits]

Uwe,
These small subunits (Heerestruppen) were usually found attached in the 13. (IG) Kompanie of the various regiments. Sometimes you'll find a number written next to the 13. Kp., or a remark at the top of the Gliederung.

[schwarzermai]

thanks Piet!

i think they were kregsgliederungsmäßig unterstellt, so they are no longer Heerestruppe.
But not all Divisions had their own Trupp so they didnt part of a "Soll"

Uwe

[Piet Duits]

Uwe,

I am not sure.
As of 1.6.1944, the 26. Infanterie-Division had the Inf.Schallm.Tr. (mot.) 18 in the 13./ G.R. 78, the 5. Jäger-Division had the Inf.Schallm.Tr. 29 in the Jäg.Rgt. 56.