Widerstandsnest 62

[sandeepmukherjee196]

[Split from ""Hitler got it right for Normandy 1944""]

HI RichTO90 / Richard ..

Went through the reviews for Cracking Hitler's Atlantic wall.. Pretty interesting I must say . I was going through your earlier post too where you quoted some of the D Day anecdotes from British personnel on Gold beach. You appear to have focussed on the special purpose British tanks .. "Funnies" in your book.. right? And analysed their role in making the infantry's job easy.

You appear to have commented on the Americans' refusal to use these tanks at Omaha with consequent high infantry attrition. But do tell me.. didn't a lot of the American amphibious armour sink in the choppy seas after hitting the water in the early part of the landings ? Then how would the Funnies have made a difference?

Since I love these anecdotal insights into war history, I have been trying to read up stuff from the German side. Of course, Gefreiter Hein Severloh's
( nicknamed " the butcher of Normandy" by Americans ) " WN 62 - Erinnerungen an Omaha Beach Normandie, 6. Juni 1944" comes to mind first. His information is corroborated by Carell too.

Hein Severloh..then and later

Source: Severloh, Heinrich (2004). WN 62 - Erinnerungen an Omaha Beach Normandie, 6. Juni 1944.

severloh.jpg (7.93 KiB) Viewed 2748 times

Widerstandnest 62 or WN 62, Omaha is legendary among WWII - Normandy campaign enthusiasts. Severloh was part of the 1 st battery observation team, as the Kompanie / batterie fuehrer, Ober Leutnant Bernhard Frerking's orderly, located in WN 62, along with a platoon of 726 GR. When the invasion came, in the early hours of the 6th, in the shape of 3 companies (G/16 and E/16 i.e., G and E Coy, 16th Regimental Combat Team, 1st Inf Div; E/116 i.e.,E Coy, 116th RCT, 29th Inf Div), he played a historic role. " Mit dem MG42 und zwei Karabiner 98k ( rifles) ", he started early and finished late !

From 5 AM till after 2 PM, Severloh kept on firing... The first American soldier he shot, had just waded ashore and was looking for cover. Severloh remembered many years later that when the man fell.. his helmet rolled off and ......Severloh remembers things poignantly later when he made repeated visits to the beaches and cemeteries. But that day..those fateful hours at WN 62...he " Bis etwa 15.00 Uhr verschoss er ca 12000 Schuss MG-Munition und 400 Schuss mit den beiden Karabinern" (12000 rounds from his MG 42 and 400 from the two 98 K rifles).

Widerstandnest 62..defeated but standing !

www.allenjonesphotography.com666 × 562

images.wn62.jpg (7.38 KiB) Viewed 2748 times

Naval gun fire hit the strong point. Severloh was hit in the face and the MG's sights were torn off by shell fragments. Ammo was anyway low. So he started using the night firing ammo..with every 5th round a tracer... that served as a de facto MG sighting mechanism! But that pinpointed the MG nest and invited more accurate gun fire on the strongpoint...with tanks manoeuvring on the beach below !

One by one his kamerads were leaving..but he dared not.. he said later that he was terrified of having to look his boss in the eye if he fell short of his duty ! He was not great soldier with martial qualities...he was a 21 year old farm boy from Metzingen. Drafted when 19, he had already had a run in with military law when on the Eastern Front, he had been put in the dog house for expressing politically incorrect views...the rigours of punishment fatigue landed him in hospital ! Lord knows if he remembered that part when working up courage to stick to his post against hopeless odds..

At Normandy, as the Kompanie / Batterie fuehrer's orderly, he had demonstrated his expertise in things more pleasant..viz., organising poultry, cheese and wine for his boss! But now he was playing hard ball..the hardest of all balls perhaps ! When Frerking gave the order to beat it ..Severloh made his way through the craters behind the strongpoint. But his boss didn't make it...he was shot in the head by the first Americans moving in. Severloh hinted that no prisoners were being taken by the first wave of American troops

There has been some controversy regarding Severloh's account. Wiki says : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Severloh ( without quoting sources) that there were only MG 34s in WN 62. It also says that a radio operator from the 726 GR sent a message at 0735 that the enemy in company strength were behind WN 61 and 62 and enveloping them. It further says that at 0905, WN 61 had been neutralised and only one MG was firing from WN 62 (Severloh's ?).

Does any member have more authentic information about the goings on at Widerstandnest 62 pl ?

Ciao
Sandeep

[Sheldrake]

HI RichTO90 / Richard ..

Went through the reviews for Cracking Hitler's Atlantic wall.. Pretty interesting I must say . I was going through your earlier post too where you quoted some of the D Day anecdotes from British personnel on Gold beach. You appear to have focussed on the special purpose British tanks .. "Funnies" in your book.. right? And analysed their role in making the infantry's job easy.

You appear to have commented on the Americans' refusal to use these tanks at Omaha with consequent high infantry attrition. But do tell me.. didn't a lot of the American amphibious armour sink in the choppy seas after hitting the water in the early part of the landings ? Then how would the Funnies have made a difference?

Since I love these anecdotal insights into war history, I have been trying to read up stuff from the German side. Of course, Gefreiter Hein Severloh's
( nicknamed " the butcher of Normandy" by Americans ) " WN 62 - Erinnerungen an Omaha Beach Normandie, 6. Juni 1944" comes to mind first. His information is corroborated by Carell too.

Hein Severloh..then and later

The attachment severloh.jpg is no longer available

Widerstandnest 62 or WN 62, Omaha is legendary among WWII - Normandy campaign enthusiasts. Severloh was part of the 1 st battery observation team, as the Kompanie / batterie fuehrer, Ober Leutnant Bernhard Frerking's orderly, located in WN 62, along with a platoon of 726 GR. When the invasion came, in the early hours of the 6th, in the shape of 3 companies (G/16 and E/16 i.e., G and E Coy, 16th Regimental Combat Team, 1st Inf Div; E/116 i.e.,E Coy, 116th RCT, 29th Inf Div), he played a historic role. " Mit dem MG42 und zwei Karabiner 98k ( rifles) ", he started early and finished late !

From 5 AM till after 2 PM, Severloh kept on firing... The first American soldier he shot, had just waded ashore and was looking for cover. Severloh remembered many years later that when the man fell.. his helmet rolled off and ......Severloh remembers things poignantly later when he made repeated visits to the beaches and cemeteries. But that day..those fateful hours at WN 62...he " Bis etwa 15.00 Uhr verschoss er ca 12000 Schuss MG-Munition und 400 Schuss mit den beiden Karabinern" (12000 rounds from his MG 42 and 400 from the two 98 K rifles).

Widerstandnest 62..defeated but standing !

Naval gun fire hit the strong point. Severloh was hit in the face and the MG's sights were torn off by shell fragments. Ammo was anyway low. So he started using the night firing ammo..with every 5th round a tracer... that served as a de facto MG sighting mechanism! But that pinpointed the MG nest and invited more accurate gun fire on the strongpoint...with tanks manoeuvring on the beach below !

One by one his kamerads were leaving..but he dared not.. he said later that he was terrified of having to look his boss in the eye if he fell short of his duty ! He was not great soldier with martial qualities...he was a 21 year old farm boy from Metzingen. Drafted when 19, he had already had a run in with military law when on the Eastern Front, he had been put in the dog house for expressing politically incorrect views...the rigours of punishment fatigue landed him in hospital ! Lord knows if he remembered that part when working up courage to stick to his post against hopeless odds..

At Normandy, as the Kompanie / Batterie fuehrer's orderly, he had demonstrated his expertise in things more pleasant..viz., organising poultry, cheese and wine for his boss! But now he was playing hard ball..the hardest of all balls perhaps ! When Frerking gave the order to beat it ..Severloh made his way through the craters behind the strongpoint. But his boss didn't make it...he was shot in the head by the first Americans moving in. Severloh hinted that no prisoners were being taken by the first wave of American troops

There has been some controversy regarding Severloh's account. Wiki says : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Severloh ( without quoting sources) that there were only MG 34s in WN 62. It also says that a radio operator from the 726 GR sent a message at 0735 that the enemy in company strength were behind WN 61 and 62 and enveloping them. It further says that at 0905, WN 61 had been neutralised and only one MG was firing from WN 62 (Severloh's ?).

Does any member have more authentic information about the goings on at Widerstandnest 62 pl ?

Ciao
Sandeep

Ye Gods!

It is easy to make 1+1 =3 if you try to draw conclusions from partial information. There is a LOT known about WN62 One of the survivors Franz Goeckel has a holiday home near Coleville Sur Mer and identified many of the individual soldiers defending each posty. George Bernages has done a good job of assembling the information. http://www.amazon.com/Omaha-Beach-6-1944/dp/2840481545

The picture you posted was of ositon No 14 in the sketch map housing a 75mm gun manned by three soldiers from 716 infantry Division. The gun faced West along Omaha Beach. Hein Serverloh, from AR 352 was in the trench leading from the rear of the Artillery OP with his centre of arc NE

[RichTO90]

Ye Gods!

[sandeepmukherjee196]

HI RichTO90 / Richard ..

Went through the reviews for Cracking Hitler's Atlantic wall.. Pretty interesting I must say . I was going through your earlier post too where you quoted some of the D Day anecdotes from British personnel on Gold beach. You appear to have focussed on the special purpose British tanks .. "Funnies" in your book.. right? And analysed their role in making the infantry's job easy.

You appear to have commented on the Americans' refusal to use these tanks at Omaha with consequent high infantry attrition. But do tell me.. didn't a lot of the American amphibious armour sink in the choppy seas after hitting the water in the early part of the landings ? Then how would the Funnies have made a difference?

Since I love these anecdotal insights into war history, I have been trying to read up stuff from the German side. Of course, Gefreiter Hein Severloh's
( nicknamed " the butcher of Normandy" by Americans ) " WN 62 - Erinnerungen an Omaha Beach Normandie, 6. Juni 1944" comes to mind first. His information is corroborated by Carell too.

Hein Severloh..then and later

severloh.jpg

Widerstandnest 62 or WN 62, Omaha is legendary among WWII - Normandy campaign enthusiasts. Severloh was part of the 1 st battery observation team, as the Kompanie / batterie fuehrer, Ober Leutnant Bernhard Frerking's orderly, located in WN 62, along with a platoon of 726 GR. When the invasion came, in the early hours of the 6th, in the shape of 3 companies (G/16 and E/16 i.e., G and E Coy, 16th Regimental Combat Team, 1st Inf Div; E/116 i.e.,E Coy, 116th RCT, 29th Inf Div), he played a historic role. " Mit dem MG42 und zwei Karabiner 98k ( rifles) ", he started early and finished late !

From 5 AM till after 2 PM, Severloh kept on firing... The first American soldier he shot, had just waded ashore and was looking for cover. Severloh remembered many years later that when the man fell.. his helmet rolled off and ......Severloh remembers things poignantly later when he made repeated visits to the beaches and cemeteries. But that day..those fateful hours at WN 62...he " Bis etwa 15.00 Uhr verschoss er ca 12000 Schuss MG-Munition und 400 Schuss mit den beiden Karabinern" (12000 rounds from his MG 42 and 400 from the two 98 K rifles).

Widerstandnest 62..defeated but standing !

images.wn62.jpg

Naval gun fire hit the strong point. Severloh was hit in the face and the MG's sights were torn off by shell fragments. Ammo was anyway low. So he started using the night firing ammo..with every 5th round a tracer... that served as a de facto MG sighting mechanism! But that pinpointed the MG nest and invited more accurate gun fire on the strongpoint...with tanks manoeuvring on the beach below !

One by one his kamerads were leaving..but he dared not.. he said later that he was terrified of having to look his boss in the eye if he fell short of his duty ! He was not great soldier with martial qualities...he was a 21 year old farm boy from Metzingen. Drafted when 19, he had already had a run in with military law when on the Eastern Front, he had been put in the dog house for expressing politically incorrect views...the rigours of punishment fatigue landed him in hospital ! Lord knows if he remembered that part when working up courage to stick to his post against hopeless odds..

At Normandy, as the Kompanie / Batterie fuehrer's orderly, he had demonstrated his expertise in things more pleasant..viz., organising poultry, cheese and wine for his boss! But now he was playing hard ball..the hardest of all balls perhaps ! When Frerking gave the order to beat it ..Severloh made his way through the craters behind the strongpoint. But his boss didn't make it...he was shot in the head by the first Americans moving in. Severloh hinted that no prisoners were being taken by the first wave of American troops

There has been some controversy regarding Severloh's account. Wiki says : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Severloh ( without quoting sources) that there were only MG 34s in WN 62. It also says that a radio operator from the 726 GR sent a message at 0735 that the enemy in company strength were behind WN 61 and 62 and enveloping them. It further says that at 0905, WN 61 had been neutralised and only one MG was firing from WN 62 (Severloh's ?).

Does any member have more authentic information about the goings on at Widerstandnest 62 pl ?

Ciao
Sandeep

Ye Gods!

It is easy to make 1+1 =3 if you try to draw conclusions from partial information. There is a LOT known about WN62 One of the survivors Franz Goeckel has a holiday home near Coleville Sur Mer and identified many of the individual soldiers defending each posty. George Bernages has done a good job of assembling the information. http://www.amazon.com/Omaha-Beach-6-1944/dp/2840481545

The picture you posted was of ositon No 154 in the sketch map housing a 75mm gun manned by three soldiers from 716 infantry Division. The gun faced West along Omaha Beach. Hein Serverloh, from AR 352 was in the trench leading from the rear of the Artillery OP with his centre of arc NE

Which 1 has been added to which other 1 and which 3 has been arrived at please? If you could explain the specifics about my supposedly off the mark conclusions? Or do you think "Sheldrake's Funnies" per se pack a punch like Hobart's Funnies on D Day - Normandy... and no substance is required in your assertion..just the posturing will suffice ?

[sandeepmukherjee196]

..................................


Widerstandnest 62..defeated but standing !

images.wn62.jpg

.........................................


Does any member have more authentic information about the goings on at Widerstandnest 62 pl ?

Ciao
Sandeep

The picture you posted was of ositon No 154 in the sketch map housing a 75mm gun manned by three soldiers from 716 infantry Division. The gun faced West along Omaha Beach. Hein Serverloh, from AR 352 was in the trench leading from the rear of the Artillery OP with his centre of arc NE

I had specifically requested members for more authentic information on WN62..Didn't figure out that around here this request invites ridicule...perhaps 'know-all' posturing being the order of the day!

In the "complete information" that was posted by you I couldn't locate position No 154....no doubt due to some inadequacy on my part..but nevertheless...

I never said or implied in my post that the structure whose pic I had attched housed Hein Seveloh's MG nest. It was just a topical pic about WN 62 !

[Sheldrake]

..................................


Widerstandnest 62..defeated but standing !

images.wn62.jpg

.........................................


Does any member have more authentic information about the goings on at Widerstandnest 62 pl ?

Ciao
Sandeep

The picture you posted was of position No 14 in the sketch map housing a 75mm gun manned by three soldiers from 716 infantry Division. The gun faced West along Omaha Beach. Hein Serverloh, from AR 352 was in the trench leading from the rear of the Artillery OP with his centre of arc NE

I had specifically requested members for more authentic information on WN62..Didn't figure out that around here this request invites ridicule...perhaps 'know-all' posturing being the order of the day!

In the "complete information" that was posted by you I couldn't locate position No 154....no doubt due to some inadequacy on my part..but nevertheless...

I never said or implied in my post that the structure whose pic I had attched housed Hein Seveloh's MG nest. It was just a topical pic about WN 62 !

Sandeep,

Sorry about any offence. The juxtaposition of the un-captioned image of the face of position 14 creates the impression that this is Serverloh's position, which was at the right rear of position 27. (Position 154 was a typo caused by fat fingers fuelled by indignation.)

What happened at a micro tactical level is very interesting. You posed a thought provoking question to Rich90. What exactly was the decisive contribution of any one soldier. That is a key question which military historians have been trying to answer.

One tradition of military history is to glorify the deeds of heroes; viking sagas, medical romances or the front pages of Victory comic. We identify the heroes and attribute the success to them. The Longest day shows Norman T Cota single handled handed lead the 29th Div off Omaha Beach. He was indeed a brave man and a fine leader. But he was not the only American soldier to draw the conclusion that plan A was not working and Plan B needed to be put into action; Viz infiltrating up the bluffs rather than fight up the draws.

It is quite likely that the pressure to get off the beach , plus prior experience of 1 Div plus prior training for the Rangers resulted in a "crowd sourced" tactical solution and a mass impulse to get up the bluffs and infiltrate between the German positions. outflank . Some of these men were identified and singled out for praise and reward, notably the men carrying rank seen to be doing a good job. Others were not.

So your question about what Germans carried out any decisive action might be rhetorical. Probably none. Because the Germans lost the battle on Omaha Beach. They failed to prevent the Allies landing or developing a beach head and lost far higher a proportion of their troops than the Allies

However in another sense , every soldier who did his bit was contributing to the result. There were a lot of people on that day, and others who were not. A significant proportion of weapons on the British beaches were never fired a shot. SLA Marshall famously found that only a small proportion of soldiers actually participated in fire fights. The British Army's Initial Training Group used to have a phrase to sum up what being a good soldier meant. "Doing the right thing on a difficult day." Servaloh was doing just that.

[sandeepmukherjee196]

..................................


Widerstandnest 62..defeated but standing !

images.wn62.jpg

.........................................


Does any member have more authentic information about the goings on at Widerstandnest 62 pl ?

Ciao
Sandeep

The picture you posted was of position No 14 in the sketch map housing a 75mm gun manned by three soldiers from 716 infantry Division. The gun faced West along Omaha Beach. Hein Serverloh, from AR 352 was in the trench leading from the rear of the Artillery OP with his centre of arc NE

I had specifically requested members for more authentic information on WN62..Didn't figure out that around here this request invites ridicule...perhaps 'know-all' posturing being the order of the day!

In the "complete information" that was posted by you I couldn't locate position No 154....no doubt due to some inadequacy on my part..but nevertheless...

I never said or implied in my post that the structure whose pic I had attched housed Hein Seveloh's MG nest. It was just a topical pic about WN 62 !

Sandeep,

Sorry about any offence. The juxtaposition of the un-captioned image of the face of position 14 creates the impression that this is Serverloh's position, which was at the right rear of position 27. (Position 154 was a typo caused by fat fingers fuelled by indignation.)

...............................................

However in another sense , every soldier who did his bit was contributing to the result. There were a lot of people on that day, and others who were not. A significant proportion of weapons on the British beaches were never fired a shot. SLA Marshall famously found that only a small proportion of soldiers actually participated in fire fights. The British Army's Initial Training Group used to have a phrase to sum up what being a good soldier meant. "Doing the right thing on a difficult day." Servaloh was doing just that.

HI Sheldrake...

No offence. I have typos and careless memory tricks galore.. I made a bloomer earlier on the DD Tanks.."Double Duplex" !! Jeez!

I had indeed asked a rhetorical question vis-a-vis Severloh's role being decisive or otherwise. This was in response to Richard going out of his way to state that Severloh's role wasn't decisive...where I had never said or implied that it was !

I fully agree with what you have written above.... some soldiers standing out in any action and leaving an imprint on public perception. As I had stated that under normal circumstances Severloh was an unlikely hero...He was no fire chewing, quick on the draw.. martial role model. He carried out his orders steadfastly... to deadly effect that day.. thats all.

Ciao
Sandeep

[RichTO90]

I had specifically requested members for more authentic information on WN62..Didn't figure out that around here this request invites ridicule...perhaps 'know-all' posturing being the order of the day!

Sandeep, my apologies as well, but it seemed you were being less serious and more hagiographic about the subject. As Sheldrake noted, the question about the "decisive German soldier at OMAHA" was a bit of an oxymoron, since the Germans lost. So you probably should have asked about the decisive American soldiers and sailors. Such as Cota, but also Colonel Charles D.W. Canham, commander of the 16th Infantry, who famously said (although there are numerous variations this is my favorite) "there are only two kinds of men on this beach, those who are dead and those who are about to die, so let's get the F**K OFF THIS BEACH!" There was also Lieutenant John Spaulding, E Company, 16th Infantry, who was probably one of the first 1st Division officers to solve the tactical problem and get off the beach. Or S/Sgt. Curtis Colwell of Spaulding's company, who first blew a hole through the wire with a Bangalore in that sector. Or Sgt. Phillip Streczyk and Pfc. Richard J. Gallagher, who first scouted the route up the bluffs and through the minefields. And so on. You can look for other "decisive" men in the 741st and 743rd Tank battalions, the 116th Infantry, the 2nd and 5th Rangers, the Engineers, and the 5th and 6th ESB. And the Navy (US & RN) and Coast Guard.

The other problem is that there is so much mythology and "everybody knows" surrounding the events of D-Day in general and OMAHA specifically that it is difficult after spending so much time exploring the facts to have to continuously respond to correct the Hollywood view. Especially when there are a large number of very good and very detailed accounts that dispel much of the myth making. You can easily find Spaulding's account online for example. Then there is Steve's work - and not to toot my own horn, but also my work - that take very specialized looks at the events. There are Balkoski's two works on UTAH and OMAHA. There is the venerable Cross-Channel Attack if you want an "official" history (the British account is very "official" and not as complete when it comes to the warts, since it was vetted by Monty). All of the Canadian histories are available online, which includes Col. C.P. Stacey's original research that contains two very detailed accounts of the German side of the operation. Ziegelmann's account is also readily available in full in print, as part of David Isby's (the Brooklyn Englishman ) series for Greenhill Press that are transcriptions of the original postwar FMS done by the Historical Division, USAREUR.

And so on. If you are careful, you won't simply repeat things like the myth of the "American/Canadian/British" officer who "forced" his "cowardly" "British/American/Canadian" landing craft coxswain to head into the beach...or the American landing craft coxswain who "resolved" the issue at OMAHA by "deliberately crashing" his craft through the German obstacles...or the classic Hollywood "nobody can get off the beach until this monster wall gets blown up" (in reality, there were TWO AT walls, one of which was at Vierville that was blown up after StP Vierville was cleared and was so massive it took about a ton of COMP-B to blast, and the second at St. Laurent, which proved in the aftermath to have been constructed entirely without rebar, so was cleared very easily by a bulldozer). And so many others.

Anyway, cheers!

[RichTO90]

No offence. I have typos and careless memory tricks galore.. I made a bloomer earlier on the DD Tanks.."Double Duplex" !! Jeez!

As do we all...at least you didn't call them Donald Duck Tanks (which, believe it or not, actually has been used).

I had indeed asked a rhetorical question vis-a-vis Severloh's role being decisive or otherwise. This was in response to Richard going out of his way to state that Severloh's role wasn't decisive...where I had never said or implied that it was !

Hopefully now you understand why Severloh's roel wasn't decisive. Seriously, I'm not a fan of the idea that anything as complicated as the events of D-Day on OMAHA beach can be distilled down to "Hein Severloh" and his machine gun and "carbine" (it wasn't a "carbine" BTW in the English language sense, it was a Karabinier-98, the standard German infantryman's rifle).

I fully agree with what you have written above.... some soldiers standing out in any action and leaving an imprint on public perception. As I had stated that under normal circumstances Severloh was an unlikely hero...He was no fire chewing, quick on the draw.. martial role model. He carried out his orders steadfastly... to deadly effect that day.. thats all.

Yep, as did many of the other German defenders. The guys manning the two 7.5cm guns in WN 62 and the adjacent 8.8cm in WN 61 had as much to do as Severloh in stymieing the advance of the 16th Infantry for example, since they prevented the M4 medium tanks that had landed from being decisive in supporting the American infantry...until an infantryman of the 16th took out the 88 with a bazooka, and Sgt. Sheppard with the three-odd tanks landed were finally able to maneuver to support the seizure of WN 60 and 61, outflanking 62, while Spaulding's group did the same on the other flank.

And so on...

[sandeepmukherjee196]

Hopefully now you understand why Severloh's roel wasn't decisive. Seriously, I'm not a fan of the idea that anything as complicated as the events of D-Day on OMAHA beach can be distilled down to "Hein Severloh" and his machine gun and "carbine" (it wasn't a "carbine" BTW in the English language sense, it was a Karabinier-98, the standard German infantryman's rifle).

But right from the word go I understood that no German soldier's role was 'decisive' on D Day ( in the positive sense) ! Not Severloh ..not anyone else.I never implied or said otherwise.

I never said it was a carbine in the Englich language sense..I quoted in German when mentining Severloh's arsenal

...............................But that day..those fateful hours at WN 62...he " Bis etwa 15.00 Uhr verschoss er ca 12000 Schuss MG-Munition und 400 Schuss mit den beiden Karabinern" (12000 rounds from his MG 42 and 400 from the two 98 K rifles).
.................................

Ciao
Sandeep

[RichTO90]

But right from the word go I understood that no German soldier's role was 'decisive' on D Day ( in the positive sense) ! Not Severloh ..not anyone else.I never implied or said otherwise.

That is clear now, but it wasn't clear to me - or Sheldrake apparently - when you posted it. You went from a serious discussion of events to focusing on the usual hagiography of Sverloh and Goeckel. Thanks for clearing that up so we can get back to the serious discussion.

I never said it was a carbine in the Englich language sense..I quoted in German when mentining Severloh's arsenal

And, in turn, I never said you did, but many sources, one of which you quoted from IIRC, do. It was simply part and parcel with the problematic nature of much of what is accepted about what occurred on OMAHA...from both sides.

Cheers!

[Ludwig Wittgenstein]

Hey everyone.. interesting, if 'fiery' discussion here.. (as usual!) I'm always interested in this subject so look forward to more info.

I visited WN 62 recently, I tracked the location down on foot using the Major Holt guide to the beach locations. At the time I didn't have a more detailed map of the resistance net like the one in the post above, that would have been useful..

I found the site of WN 62 very eerie especially when looking out onto the shore. The landscape was not how I expected it - I expected the resistance net to be a lot closer to sea level, but actually there is a long way from the shore to the bluffs which are quite imposing and a steep incline up to the area of the bunkers themselves. Below are a few pictures which give some idea of the perspective from WN 62 down onto Omaha beach. I guess it can be seen how the position offered a formidable opportunity to defend the area from those first waves of the landings that morning.. makes me shudder just thinking of it.. I recommend a visit there to anyone who hasn't and is considering.

[sandeepmukherjee196]

Hi Ludwig Wittgenstein.....

Very interesting post.

Ciao
Sandeep

[Sheldrake]

It is an impressive place to stand and one where you can appreciate the strength of the defences.

It takes about an hour to appreciate the weakness as well as the strengths of WN62. Walk down to the beach, turn left and walk along it. Keep your eye on WN 62 and identify its neighbour WN64 on the Western edge of the cemetery. Follow one of the paths which leads up to the US Cemetery. You quickly find yourself in dead ground to both WN62 and WN64 an following the route of the US soldiers who infiltrated between the posiitons.

[sandeepmukherjee196]

Hi everybody...

This is an AT position in WN 62. Being inspected after capture on a subsequent date. Can anyone identify the position from the WN 62 map given by Sheldrake earlier in the post?

www.battleofnormandytours.com700 × 535

WN62.AT Gun.jpg (164.81 KiB) Viewed 2319 times

Is this the 88 position whose destruction made it possible for the tanks to manoeuvre on Omaha ?

http://www.battleofnormandytours.com/omaha-beach.html

88mm position.jpg (105.43 KiB) Viewed 2318 times

Ciao
Sandeep