81. ID in the battle of the Chemin des Dames

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irek6969
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81. ID in the battle of the Chemin des Dames

#1

Post by irek6969 » 16 Apr 2015, 18:26

Hi!

When (time) IR189. was subordinated to the orders 25. ID?
What time General Ritter von Speck (XVIII. AK) gave the order to move 81. ID on the left bank of the canal?

Irek

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Glynwed
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Re: 81. ID in the battle of the Chemin des Dames

#2

Post by Glynwed » 16 Apr 2015, 21:25

The XVIII.AK ordered the position of 81.ID at area Cessiers - Mon-en-Laonnats - Laon-West till the end of 5th June 1940. At that time IR 189, I./AR181 and Pz.Abw.Abt. 181 were subordinated to 25.ID.

At 6th June order was issued to 81.ID to attack next day (7th June) between 25.ID and 290.ID. IR 189 have to advanced to Chivres-Val and Missy-sur-Aisne (under 25. ID). At the night 7th/8th June the III./IR 189 criossed the Aisne river and entered Billy-sur-Aisne.

Source: Werner Haupt, Die 81. Infanteriedivision, Dörfler Zeitgeschichte


irek6969
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Re: 81. ID in the battle of the Chemin des Dames

#3

Post by irek6969 » 17 Apr 2015, 18:17

05.06 From 5:00 181. Artillery Regiment 25th Infantry Division supports (Wissignicourt - Faucoucourt - Suzy). Shooting at Pinon forest. In the afternoon, the staff of the seventeenth Corpusu is the decision to subordination 189th Infantry Regiment, I. / 181. Artillery and .181. AT units under the command of the 25th Infantry Division. and the rest 81. Infantry Division has to go for the 25th Infantry Division. 81. Division of the channel goes over the bridge in Urcel.

06.06 About 16.00 General Leopper received orders to go to the area of the village Lauffaux. 81. The division is there at 20.00.

07.06 81. Division falls between 290 and 25 divisions. 174. On the right in the middle of 161 and left 189 infantry regiments. The attack on the section Bucy-le-Long - Missy. afternoon Germans reach the river. 23.00 II. / 161. Infantry Regiment on pontoons flows Aisne.

Questions:
Start time of the conference in the XVIII Corps?
Where fighting IR189. as it is subordinated to the orders 25.ID?
When (time?) IR.174 Pinon fights in the forest?
Start time of attack 81. ID (07.06)

irek6969
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Re: 81. ID in the battle of the Chemin des Dames

#4

Post by irek6969 » 18 Apr 2015, 11:03

Are there any other book of the 81st Infantry Division, describing the battle in the campaign in France 1940 years?

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Re: 81. ID in the battle of the Chemin des Dames

#5

Post by irek6969 » 19 Apr 2015, 12:23

Werner Haupt In the book, it is written that 81st Infantry Division from the area of the village Lauffaux attacking right wing with the IR 174, IR 161 in the middle and on the left side IR 189. But during the crossing Aisny III. / IR 189 is already on the right wing attacks Billy-sur-Aisne. Suggestions?

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Re: 81. ID in the battle of the Chemin des Dames

#6

Post by irek6969 » 22 Apr 2015, 09:53

Hi
Do you have any information about the Battle of the village Bry-sur-Ourcq (June 9, 1940)? I know that the river reached squad captain Petersdorff and died there Captain Winkel commander Radf. Schw. 181.

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tigre
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Re: 81. ID in the battle of the Chemin des Dames

#7

Post by tigre » 24 May 2015, 01:27

Hello irek6969 :D; a little tip.........................

Billy-sur-Aisne 1949
Werner Haupt In the book, it is written that 81st Infantry Division from the area of the village Lauffaux attacking right wing with the IR 174, IR 161 in the middle and on the left side IR 189. But during the crossing Aisny III. / IR 189 is already on the right wing attacks Billy-sur-Aisne. Suggestions?
As per the book: the IR 174 (Oberst v. Roden) was to attack by Bucy-le-Long (right); the IR 161 (Oberst Boege) by St. Margueritte and Venizel as (center) and the IR 189 (Oberst Hohmeyer), with the neighbor division, by Chivres and Missy. On Jun 07, the 81. ID won ground (15 km wide) between the valleys of the Ailette and Aisne. During the night the first battalions managed to get across the river. The II./ IR 161 (Hptm Möwisch) pushed ahead towards Acy and got in contact with the III./ IR 189 (Hptm v. Petersdorff) which met hostile resistance in front on Billy-sur-Aisne (coming from the left of the attack - see the map below). Hptm Möwisch ordered his 7. Company (Oblt. Dr. Hopf) to attack towards the farm at Point 166 in order to protect the flank of the adjacent battalion (in this combat Möwisch was KIA while reaching the farm in first place).

Source: Geschichte der 81. Infanterie Division. W. Haupt.

Next post something about Brény-sur-Ourcq. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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image012.jpg
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Billy-sur-Aisne,+Francia/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x47e85854f5ed5427:0x3b91fbaf91ef4149?dg=dbrw&newdg=1
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tigre
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Re: 81. ID in the battle of the Chemin des Dames

#8

Post by tigre » 25 May 2015, 17:41

Hello irek6969 :D; something about Brény-sur-Ourcq.........................

Attack on Brény-sur-Ourcq - Jun 1940.

The order for the 81. ID for next day (Jun, 09) was to push forward to the south. In the night the Army Corps built an Advance Guard (vorausabteilung) under Hptm v. Petersdorff with the II./ IR 189 (III./IR 189?), 1./ Pi Btl 181, Radfahr Schw. 181, 3./ Pz. Jäg. Abt 181, IV./ AR 260 and one Pl. heavy howitzers from the Army.

On Jun 09, 1940 in a sunny and warmer weather the Ourcq was overcome. The enemy defended bitterly along the south bank, especially at Brény-sur-Ourcq. Around 17:30 hours the V-Abt v. Petersdoff attacked Brény, but could not take it. Here was KIA the commander of the Radfahr Schw. 181, Rittm. Aus dem Winkel. The town only would be taken during the night around 02:00 hours.

The 7th company of the 159th Alpine Infantry Regiment commanded by Lieutenant Ray left as rear-guard was ordered on June 8, to deploy at Breny-sur-Ourcq and resist to the last,in order to avoid (for the enemy) the reconstruction and the passage of the bridge of the road Soissons - Chateau Thierry. The 7th company withstood all day long (Jun 09) against an assault formation............
"Première à Colditz" by general Alain Le Ray - first published in 1976.

On Jun 10, at 05:00 hours, the V-Abt v. Petersdorff proceeded towards its next objective: the Marne River.................

Source: Geschichte der 81. Infanterie Division. W. Haupt.
http://www.georezo.net/veler/carto/pdf/ourcq.pdf. (closed by now)

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
Attachments
image004.png
The unit mentioned as IR 183 was really the IR 189, because the IR 183 was part of the 62 ID....................

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