Why the 78. Sturm-Division?

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Kelvin
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Re: Why the 78. Sturm-Division?

#16

Post by Kelvin » 18 Aug 2015, 07:46

CNE503 wrote:Hello,

The commonly admitted explanation concerning the change of name of this division on January 1st, 1943 is the following one: it was to honour its impressive battle records during the Soviet offensive "Mars" late November and early December 1942. Also, as it was a mainly Schwabian unit, it was a link to the prestigious imperial "Sturmfahn" (assault flag) of the holy Germanic Roman emperor of the Middle Ages, which was protected by trusted Schwabians.
But it doesn't sound correct to me. Otherwise, there were a lot of another divisions which could claim this sort of honour (for instance, not speaking of mechanized or airborne units, at some stages of the war: 7., 12., 44., 62. Infanterie Divisionen, etc.). And in this case, why the occupation unit of Rhodes was an assault division whereas it didn't fight during its whole existence?

I found another hypothetical explanation for this renaming of the 78. Infanterie-Division: owing to the heavy losses it suffered during the Soviet offensive "Mars", it was fully reorganized into a new type of unit. For instance, its infantry regiments were reduced to a single battalion (but with six companies, including a heavy one and an engineers one); the division was OPCON-reinforced with three organic battalions : assault guns, Flak and mortar battalions; on February 1st, 1943, the three battalions of its artillery regiment were tactically subordinated to the infantry regiments, whereas the combat support battalions listed above (assault guns, mortars and Flak) were subordinated to the artillery regiment staff.
Long story short: the division was an experimental unit. Its purpose was to test a new tactical organization which enhances firepower capabilities but needs less troopers to do so. The experiment was inconclusive because 1) it was not broadened to other units; 2) the division was reorganized from April 1st, 1943 into somewhat more traditional (three infantry regiments with two battalions each, an artillery regiment with four battalions, etc.) even if it retained its additional fire support units. But the name "Sturm-Division" stayed.

Am I totally wrong or my attempt to explain this term sounds correct?

Thanks for your comments,
Cheers,

CNE503
Hi, Gary, thank.

And CNE503, you said 7, 12,44 and 62 ID had some sort of honour, I know what about 44, who became Reichs Grenadier Division HuD but about another three divisons, I never heard that, may you tell me what is it ?

CNE503
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Re: Why the 78. Sturm-Division?

#17

Post by CNE503 » 18 Aug 2015, 10:10

Hi Kelvin,

I wrote that "there were a lot of another divisions which could claim this sort of honour (for instance [...] at some stages of the war: 7., 12., 44., 62. Infanterie Divisionen, etc.)." These divisions were not particularly honoured, but their combat performance could ensure them to have some battle honours if these ones existed. That's why I don't think that the name "Sturm" was a recognition of value in combat, otherwise, 78. Sturm Division would have been honoured of this title after the 7., 12., 44. and 62. Infanterie Divisionen (for instance).

CNE503
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"


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tigre
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Re: Why the 78. Sturm-Division?

#18

Post by tigre » 22 Aug 2015, 04:41

Hello Kelvin :D; here goes the IV. Abt AR 178.................
And what kind of gun did IV abteilung was equipped in its Artillery Regiment ?
Source: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~max_rob1/78%2008.jpg

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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Kelvin
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Re: Why the 78. Sturm-Division?

#19

Post by Kelvin » 22 Aug 2015, 20:06

Hi, tigre, thank.

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schwarzermai
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Re: Why the 78. Sturm-Division?

#20

Post by schwarzermai » 23 Aug 2015, 07:29

Hello Raul & Kelvin - the organisational chart isent original - its a mix of old and new tactical weapon signs and wrong

IV./A.R. 178 was equipped with s.F.H. 18 - the tactical sign in the "internet" chart shows s.F.H. "Beute" - no german gun

additional some charts of the division

Image
Image
Image
Image

Uwe
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My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"

http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/

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tigre
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Re: Why the 78. Sturm-Division?

#21

Post by tigre » 23 Aug 2015, 12:48

Thanks Uwe :wink:: Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

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Re: Why the 78. Sturm-Division?

#22

Post by CNE503 » 22 Jan 2016, 22:42

Hello,

Does anyone know what kind of heavy self-propelled tank-destroyers were used in the two-companies Panzerjäger Abteilung 178?
Some of the "Marder" family? It is dubious that it was "Nashorn" at this time. Any guess?

Thanks!
Cheers,

CNE503
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Hoplophile
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Re: Why the 78. Sturm-Division?

#23

Post by Hoplophile » 28 Jun 2017, 04:26

The 78th Assault Division was the subject of three articles in the Tactical Notebook. PDF copies of these articles can be found at the following site, courtesy of the on-line companion to On Artillery.

http://onartillerycompanion.blogspot.co ... ision.html

The online companion to On Armor provides links to the transcripts of three interviews with Hermann Balck that were conducted during the 1970s.
http://onarmorcompanion.blogspot.com/2017/06/1.html

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Re: Why the 78. Sturm-Division?

#24

Post by Eugen Pinak » 28 Jun 2017, 12:37

Hoplophile wrote:The 78th Assault Division was the subject of three articles in the Tactical Notebook. PDF copies of these articles can be found at the following site, courtesy of the on-line companion to On Artillery.

http://onartillerycompanion.blogspot.co ... ision.html

The online companion to On Armor provides links to the transcripts of three interviews with Hermann Balck that were conducted during the 1970s.
http://onarmorcompanion.blogspot.com/2017/06/1.html
Thank you very much for the link to interesting source.

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tigre
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Re: Why the 78. Sturm-Division?

#25

Post by tigre » 28 Jun 2017, 23:27

Yes, thank you very much for those links Hoplophile :wink:. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

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Re: Why the 78. Sturm-Division?

#26

Post by Hoplophile » 29 Jun 2017, 01:28

You are most welcome!

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Re: Why the 78. Sturm-Division?

#27

Post by CNE503 » 01 Jul 2017, 15:19

Well gentlemen,

I found in NARA T315 R1100 files 0131 the following data:
78. Sturm-Division acknowledged on February 4th, 1943, that its subordinated units were organizing according the following tables of organization and equipment (Kriegsstärkenachweise KStN):

1)
- Kommando einer Infanterie Division: KStN 21 v.1.11.1941;
- Radahr-Schwadron: KStN 356 v.1.11.1941;
- Divisionskartenstelle (motorisiert): KStN 2076 v.1.2.1941;
- Feldgendarmerietrupp a (motorisiert): KStN 2033a v.1.3.1942;

2)
- Stab eines Infanterie Regiments: KStN 101 v1.11.1941;
- Stabskompanie eines Infanterie Regiments: KStN 130 v1.2.1942;
- Stab eines Infanterie Bataillons: KStN 111 v.1.2.1942;
- Grenadier Kompanie eines Sturm-Regiments: KStN 131g v.4.1.1943 (Entw.);
- Schwere Kompanie eines Sturm-Regiments: KStN 151g v.4.1.1943 (Entw.);
- Pionier Kompanie e: KStN 711e v.6.1.1943 (Entw.);
- Stab einer leichte Artillerie Abteilung: KStN 403 v.1.11.1941;
- Stabsbatterie einer leichte Artillerie Abteilung: KStN 582 v.1.11.1941;
- Batterie leichte Feldhaubitze (zu 3 Geschützen): KStN 433a v.1.4.1942;

3)
- Stab eines Artillerie Regiments (motorisiert) einer Infanterie Division (motorisiert): KStN 410 v.1.11.1941;
- Stabsbatterie eines Artillerie Regiments (motorisiert): KStN 578 v.1.11.1941;
- Stab einer schwere Artillerie Abteilung: KStN 403 v.1.11.1941;
- Stabsbatterie einer schwere Artillerie Abteilung: KStN 590 v.1.11.1941;
- Batterie schwere Feldhaubitze (zu 4 Geschützen): KStN 459 v.1.11.1941;
- Stabsbatterie (motorisiert) einer Sturmgeschütz Abteilung (motorisiert): KStN 588 v.1.11.1941;
- Sturmgeschütz Batterie (motorisiert): KStN 446 v.1.11.1941;
- Stab einer Heeres-Flakartillerie Abteilung (motorisiert): KStN 1705 v.1.11.1941;
- Stabsbatterie (motorisiert) einer Heeres-Flakartillerie Abteilung (motorisiert): KStN 1709 v.1.11.1941;
- Heeres-Flakartillerie Batterie 8,8cm (4 Geschützen): KStN 1711 v.1.3.1942;
- Heeres-Flakartillerie Batterie 2cm (12 Geschützen) (mot.Z.) ohne 4. Zug: KStN 1713 v.1.7.1942;
- T.E. Heeresflakzug 2cm Vierling (Selbstfahrlafette): KStN 1715 v.4.11.1942;
- T.E. Scheinwerferstaffel a (mot.Z.): KStN 1714 v.5.10.1942;
- leichte Artillerie Kolonne (20t) (mot.Z.): KStN 511 v.1.11.1941;

4)
- Stab einer Panzerjäger Abteilung (Selbstfahrlafette): KStN 1106a v.1.11.1941;
- Panzerjäger Kompanie (9 Geschützen 7,5cm PaK 40) (Selbstfahrlafette): KStN 1148a v.1.12.1942;

5)
- Stab eines schweren Granatwerfer Bataillon (12cm) (motorisiert): KStN 120a v.14.11.1942;
- schweren Granatwerfer Kompanie (12cm) (motorisiert): KStN 169 v.6.11.1942;

6)
- Stab einer Infanterie Divisions-Nachrichten Abteilung (teile motorisiert): KStN 806 v.1.3.1942;
- Fernsprechkompanie (teile motorisiert) (5 Züge): KStN 831 v.1.3.1942;
- Funkkompanie (motorisiert) einer Infanterie Division (motorisiert): KStN 858 v.1.5.1942;
- leichte Nachrichten Kolonne (teile motorisiert): KStN 871a v.1.3.1942;

7)
[...]
[It concerns the Ausbildungsschule raised from the disbanded Feldausbildungs Abteilung 178 but no KStN are mentioned]

8)
- Stab eines Divisions-Nachschubführers (motorisiert): KStN 1208 v.1.3.1942;
- Kraftfahrkompanie b (120t): KStN 1217b v.1.11.1942;
- Kraftfahrkompanie a (90t): KStN 1217a v.1.11.1942;
- grosse Fahrkolonne (60t): KStN 1246 v.1.3.1942;
- Nachschubkompanie (teile motorisiert): KStN 1256 v.1.3.1942;

9)
- Werkstattkompanie (motorisiert): KStN 1052 v.1.11.1941;

10)
- Verpflegungsamt: KStN 2086 v.1.2.1941;
- Bäckereikompanie e (motorisiert): KStN 1277 v.1.11.1941;
- Schlächtereikompanie (motorisiert): KStN 1282 v.1.2.1941;

11)
- Sanitätskompanie b (motorisiert): KStN 1314 v.1.11.1941;
- Feldlazarett (motorisiert): KStN 1342 v.1.11.1941;
- Kranken-Kraftwagen-Zug: KStN 1365 v.1.11.1941;

12)
- Veterinär Kompanie: KStN 1415 v.1.3.1942;

13)
- Feldpostamt: KStN 2251 v.1.2.1941.

A lot of small exceptions are listed in the document.
Hope this is of interest for some of you!
Cheers,

CNE503
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"

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Piet Duits
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Re: Why the 78. Sturm-Division?

#28

Post by Piet Duits » 07 Jul 2017, 00:09

The 78. Sturm-Division as of 1.6.1944 (source: RH 20-4-552)
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CNE503
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Re: Why the 78. Sturm-Division?

#29

Post by CNE503 » 10 Jul 2017, 22:05

Hello,

I found this one for March 15th, 1943. It is a very interesting one because it dealt with the period the divisional organization was on trial with a unique scheme (based on three Sturm-Regimenter with only one six-companies Grenadier Bataillon and a leichte Artillerie Abteilung, an Artillerie Regiment that had authority over a schwere Artillerie Abteilung, a Heeres-Flakartillerie-Abteilung and a Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung, and particular divisional assets (a Radfahr-Schwadron, a Panzerjäger Abteilung (Selbstfahrlafette), a schwere Granatwerfer Bataillon (motorisiert), etc., but no Pionier Bataillon), between February 25th and March 25th, 1943. It was its organization when it fought in the area of Dmitrowsk and participated to the erection of the Orel bulge.
It was not a good organization so it was reinforced and changed it from the end of March 1943.
Source: NARA T315 R1100.

Cheers,

CN503
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Miles Krogfus
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Re: Why the 78. Sturm-Division?

#30

Post by Miles Krogfus » 16 Jul 2017, 14:21

Here is its combat report of March 16,1943:
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78-1 001.jpg
78-2 001.jpg

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