Hello,
To compare with the 78. Sturm-Division organization, I need to know how many men were assigned in a Grenadier battalion and company at some point between January and June 1943. I also need to know how many mortars, heavy and light machineguns (and if relevant, antitank guns, infantry guns and flamethrowers) did they serve.
Has anyone these informations?
Thank you,
Cheers,
CNE503
Grenadier battalion strength, 1943
Grenadier battalion strength, 1943
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"
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Gary Kennedy
- Member
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Re: Grenadier battalion strength, 1943
It gets a bit confused during the timeframe you're looking at.
The Feb41 Inf Bn was based on;
Bn HQ - 79
3 Rifle Coys - each 190 (12 LMGs, 3x 5-cm mortars and 3 atk rifles per Coy)
MG Coy - 202 (12 HMGs and 6x 8-cm mortars
Total Bn - 851 (36 LMGs, 12 HMGs, 9x 5-cm mortars, 6x 8-cm mortars and 9 atk rifles)
In 1943 the mortar allocation changed with the introduction of the 12-cm mortar (as purloined from the Red Army model). The Rifle Coys were to lose the 3-man det serving the 5-cm mortar in each Rifle Pl, but to add a new Section at Coy level with 2x 8-cm mortars. In turn, the MG Coy lost the 8-cm Pl and replaced it with a 12-cm Mortar Pl equipped with 4x 12-cm weapons.
There was a KStN for the 8-cm Mortar Sec, but that's gone unfortunately. If they went for a simple redistribution of the 8-cm mortar teams that could be 17-men per Coy 8-cm Sec (assuming Sec NCO, 2 Mortar NCOs, 10 mortarmen, 1 rangetaker and 3 wagon drivers/ horse leaders). If everything else remained equal, that could give the Rifle Coy a revised authorised strength of 198.
For the 12-cm Mortar Pl, there were a few KStN issued. The one I've seen referred to for Inf Bns was 175d from Mar43, which has options for both three and four tubes, and both fully or partly motorised. Assuming part mot with 4 weapons the Pl strength was 47 men. So again assuming the rest stayed as per KStN the MG Coy might be 187.
That gives a possible revised strength for the Inf Bn of 860 all ranks. Weapons would then be 36 LMGs, 12 HMGs, 6x 8-cm mortars, 4x 12-cm mortars and 9 atk rifles. Note that Gliederung continue to show 3 atk rifles per Rifle Coy (though I think it's widely believed the weapons had been discarded in practical terms?).
Atk and inf guns were kept at Regtl level in Inf Regts. The Atk Coy could be on any of a dizzying number of KStN, or conform to none at all. 2x 7.5-cm, 2x 5-cm and 6x 3.7-cm was one example, while another was 3x 7.5-cm and 6x 5-cm. Inf Gun Coys tended to be 6x 7.5-cm and 2x 15-cm guns. These support weapons could be attached to the Bns as required.
Gary (edited, as I got the wrong total for the 12-cm Pl)
The Feb41 Inf Bn was based on;
Bn HQ - 79
3 Rifle Coys - each 190 (12 LMGs, 3x 5-cm mortars and 3 atk rifles per Coy)
MG Coy - 202 (12 HMGs and 6x 8-cm mortars
Total Bn - 851 (36 LMGs, 12 HMGs, 9x 5-cm mortars, 6x 8-cm mortars and 9 atk rifles)
In 1943 the mortar allocation changed with the introduction of the 12-cm mortar (as purloined from the Red Army model). The Rifle Coys were to lose the 3-man det serving the 5-cm mortar in each Rifle Pl, but to add a new Section at Coy level with 2x 8-cm mortars. In turn, the MG Coy lost the 8-cm Pl and replaced it with a 12-cm Mortar Pl equipped with 4x 12-cm weapons.
There was a KStN for the 8-cm Mortar Sec, but that's gone unfortunately. If they went for a simple redistribution of the 8-cm mortar teams that could be 17-men per Coy 8-cm Sec (assuming Sec NCO, 2 Mortar NCOs, 10 mortarmen, 1 rangetaker and 3 wagon drivers/ horse leaders). If everything else remained equal, that could give the Rifle Coy a revised authorised strength of 198.
For the 12-cm Mortar Pl, there were a few KStN issued. The one I've seen referred to for Inf Bns was 175d from Mar43, which has options for both three and four tubes, and both fully or partly motorised. Assuming part mot with 4 weapons the Pl strength was 47 men. So again assuming the rest stayed as per KStN the MG Coy might be 187.
That gives a possible revised strength for the Inf Bn of 860 all ranks. Weapons would then be 36 LMGs, 12 HMGs, 6x 8-cm mortars, 4x 12-cm mortars and 9 atk rifles. Note that Gliederung continue to show 3 atk rifles per Rifle Coy (though I think it's widely believed the weapons had been discarded in practical terms?).
Atk and inf guns were kept at Regtl level in Inf Regts. The Atk Coy could be on any of a dizzying number of KStN, or conform to none at all. 2x 7.5-cm, 2x 5-cm and 6x 3.7-cm was one example, while another was 3x 7.5-cm and 6x 5-cm. Inf Gun Coys tended to be 6x 7.5-cm and 2x 15-cm guns. These support weapons could be attached to the Bns as required.
Gary (edited, as I got the wrong total for the 12-cm Pl)
Re: Grenadier battalion strength, 1943
Gary,
It's chrystal clear, and very helpful. I thank you a lot for your messages.
Very best regards from France,
CNE503
It's chrystal clear, and very helpful. I thank you a lot for your messages.
Very best regards from France,
CNE503
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"