Leibstandarte at Viitivtsi station (March 1944)

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GregSingh
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Re: Leibstandarte at Viitivtsi station (March 1944)

#31

Post by GregSingh » 15 Feb 2016, 00:58

I see what you mean... In this case there was Schewtschenko on a major road, just northwest of Bogoduchoff. Called Les'kivka (Леськівка) these days.

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Harro
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Re: Leibstandarte at Viitivtsi station (March 1944)

#32

Post by Harro » 15 Feb 2016, 01:13

Still doubtful as Les'kivka and Bohodukhiv are almost 75 km from Kharkov which seems dangerously far behind enemy lines. I wonder: on the 9th of March Meyer was in Derhachi and to the north of that village is Shovkoplyasy which seems to cover a road from the north into Kharkov. Could this be the place we're looking for?


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Re: Leibstandarte at Viitivtsi station (March 1944)

#33

Post by GregSingh » 15 Feb 2016, 05:46

Just found Schewtschenki, it was on the road to Zirkuny. Now without a name part of Kharkov somewhere here: 50.017777, 36.329811, near Studentska subway station. But this one in on NE not NW from Kharkov.

Map shows Derhachi, Zirkuny, Schewtschenki and Kharkov.
Schewtschenki.jpg
Schewtschenki

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Harro
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Re: Leibstandarte at Viitivtsi station (March 1944)

#34

Post by Harro » 15 Feb 2016, 23:05

Perfect! Seems his company did after all participate in Meyer's move over Derhachi -> Tsyrkuny -> Velyka Danylivka then passed Schewtschenki/Studentska on the 11th of March when they used the road from Velyka Danylivka to the centre of the city. Apparently the task to in the NW of Kharkov where he had to block the roads to the N and NW should match an earlier date (9th or 10th of March)
KnittelKharkiv.JPG
KnittelKharkiv.JPG (49.59 KiB) Viewed 613 times

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Harro
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Re: Leibstandarte at Viitivtsi station (March 1944)

#35

Post by Harro » 16 Feb 2016, 10:33

I suppose Pidgorodginij was also somewhere along that same road from Tsyrkuny into the city, probably near Velyka Danylivka?

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Re: Leibstandarte at Viitivtsi station (March 1944)

#36

Post by GregSingh » 16 Feb 2016, 11:16

Pidgorodnij - according to Kharkov's German map, yes, on the same road, but between Schewtschenki and city center.
Velyka Danylivka was between Tsyrkuny and Schewtschenki.

So they advanced from Tsyrkuny, passing Velyka Danylivka, Schewtschenki, Pidgorodnij. Next they had Tjurina and basically they were in the town...

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Re: Leibstandarte at Viitivtsi station (March 1944)

#37

Post by Harro » 16 Feb 2016, 11:29

Thanks, according to Meyer they reached the road to "Stariy" (also a mystery) then instead of entering the centre they moved south to block the Kharkiv - Chuhuiv road in order to cut the main line of retreat for the enemy (who tried to break out of the city centre under pressure from Das Reich and the two infantry regiments of the Leibstandarte)

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Re: Leibstandarte at Viitivtsi station (March 1944)

#38

Post by GregSingh » 16 Feb 2016, 12:39

Stariy means "old". Perhaps they meant Old Town as City center? The road to Old Town was called Old-Moscow street.
Instead going this way they went in opposite direction and ended up on Korsikowskaja Street, which further down become road to Tschuguew (German spelling).

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Re: Leibstandarte at Viitivtsi station (March 1944)

#39

Post by Harro » 23 Feb 2016, 20:07

Moving on to the Kursk battle I'm trying to solve the mystery of the two villages both named Teterevino. They can both be seen on a German map of the area and several sources show that the "northern" Teterevino excisted and was captured by LSSAH in the evening of the 6th of July 1943 (the "southern" Teterevino was captured by Das Reich a day later) but the modern map only shows the "southern" Teterevino. Do you have more info on the mysterious northern version of this village which was apparently situated just north of Ivanovka? Also, it seems to me nearby Shilomostnoje is now called Belenikhino?
Kalinin.JPG

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Re: Leibstandarte at Viitivtsi station (March 1944)

#40

Post by Harro » 24 Feb 2016, 00:37

That's very interesting! A veteran wrote about the attack on Teterevino like it was a village, he even referred to the "Dorfstrasse" yet from the context it becomes clear that it must be the farm he talks about since they then "moved to the southeast to contact Das Reich near Kalinin". Could the farm have had a considerable size with several houses in those days, perhaps a kolkhoz like Kalinin?

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Re: Leibstandarte at Viitivtsi station (March 1944)

#41

Post by Harro » 24 Feb 2016, 00:40

The above reply was to the comment that is now gone?

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Re: Leibstandarte at Viitivtsi station (March 1944)

#42

Post by GregSingh » 24 Feb 2016, 00:48

"northern" Teterevino was just a single farm (khutor), in a place where a dirt road from Jasnaja Poljana met the main road as can be seen on your map.
A part of forest/swamp nearby still keeps the name...

Belenikhino was a train station back in 1943. It expanded into a village - between a rail line and Ivanovka.
Ivanovka still exists today.

Shilomostnoje is far to the east from Ivanovka, see you German map. Label belongs to the village right to it, not left.
Winogradowka is north of Ivanovka. All those villages still exist today.

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Re: Leibstandarte at Viitivtsi station (March 1944)

#43

Post by Harro » 24 Feb 2016, 00:57

Thanks! So my above reply actually belongs down here :milsmile:
Harro wrote:That's very interesting! A veteran wrote about the attack on Teterevino like it was a village, he even referred to the "Dorfstrasse" yet from the context it becomes clear that it must be the farm he talks about since they then "moved to the southeast to contact Das Reich near Kalinin". Could the farm have had a considerable size with several houses in those days, perhaps a kolkhoz like Kalinin?

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Re: Leibstandarte at Viitivtsi station (March 1944)

#44

Post by GregSingh » 24 Feb 2016, 01:01

Your German map shows more than one house in "northern" Teterevino! So it's possible that khutor was larger in size.
But the same map shows only one building in Belenikhino, not even a train station and does not label it! There was no space to do it...

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Re: Leibstandarte at Viitivtsi station (March 1944)

#45

Post by Harro » 24 Feb 2016, 01:04

Excellent, thank you very much Greg! Suddenly it all makes sense. For my manuscript:
The artillery barrage suddenly ended after two hours and when the smoke cleared and the shouts for ‘Sanitäter!’ (medics) grew louder Knittel’s men counted two dead and twenty eight wounded. The battalion had not even started its advance and meanwhile the enemy opposition the Leibstandarte faced grew stiffer and stiffer: the 6th Guards Army had been reinforced with tanks from the 1st Tank Army and the 2nd and 5th Guards Tank Corps, plus two infantry divisions which were all placed between the Leibstandarte and Pokrovka. After an attack by approximately twenty T-34 tanks was fended off the armoured spearhead of the Leibstandarte started its move from Yakovlevo to the northeast at 13.00hrs and after a mounted attack by the tanks, the armoured halftracks of SS-Sturmbannführer Peiper and the Aufklärungsabteilung the enemy was thrown out of northern Luchki by 16.00hrs. In pursuit of the fleeing defenders the ‘gepanzerte Gruppe’ of the Leibstandarte continued its thrust and in the evening it attacked and captured the Teterevino Farm, a large ‘Khutir’ (farmstead) west of Yasnaya Polyana not to be confused with the village of Teterevino located twelve kilometres to the south. SS-Untersturmführer Katzenbeißer’s platoon from the 2. (VW) Kompanie cleared the surrounding woods while the ‘gepanzerte Gruppe’ paused to regroup. According to his recommendation for the German Cross in gold Knittel decided to move on Kalinin, a ‘Kolkhoz’ (collective farm) near the Belenikhino railway station:

“After the attack of an armoured group on Teterevino [Knittel] moved to the southeast on his own initiative to establish contact with our neighbours on our right (Panzergruppe of the SS-Div. ‘Das Reich’) at Kalinin. Although the armoured halftracks received heavy anti-tank fire, Knittel pursued the attack at the head of his battalion, overran two anti-tank positions, broke into the enemy lines and eliminated a dangerous threat to [our] flank.”

Knittel’s armoured halftracks had run into elements of the 5th Guards Tank Corps, including the staff of Lieutenant General Kravchenko. They had been pushed out of southern Luchki by the ‘Das Reich’ division, found themselves wedged between ‘Das Reich’ and the Leibstandarte and had formed defensive positions west and south of Belenikhino in the early afternoon. SS-Obersturmführer Wawrzinek’s 3. (le.SPW) Kompanie suffered seven dead and fourteen wounded and Kravchenko and his staff made their escape to the east during the night.

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