Division Nr. 189 ?

[CNE503]

Hello,

I didn't think that such a unit existed in the early stages of the war, because no source was related to it. So in my opinion it was only on September 26th, 1942 that it was raised in Friedberg (Wehrkreis IX) that it came to life.
But I found something on http://www.maparchive.ru (http://www.maparchive.ru/division/part9 ... vision.pdf)... Apparently, a replacement division numbered 189 was raised after the mobilization was ordered late August 1939, probably in Fall 1939 (November or December, as the other ones).

I didn't find anything about a Division Nr. 189 before, so my question is quite simple: do you think that it existed, or it is only a mistake from the maparchive archival material (from NARA)?

Thanks for your help!
Cheers,

CNE503

[histan]

It is covered in Keilig Das deutsche Heer and Mehner Die deutsche Wehrmacht so it did exist.

Regards

John

[CNE503]

John,

Good to know, thank you. But neither the excellent lexikonderwehrmacht, nor axishistory, nor diedeutschewehrmacht.de, nor any other well-informed websites that I know mention it.
So has anyone any valuable information about this Division Nr.189?
Was it created from a Kommandeur der Ersatztruppen 2./IX? Was it raised as the other 170 or 180-series numbered replacement divisions between November 1939 and January 1940? What were its subordinated replacement units?

Thanks for any help provided.
Very best regards,

CNE503

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi CNE503,

From memory, and therefore not necessarily 100% accurate:

Each Alt Reich and Austrian Wehrkreis of the Ersatzheer initially had two replacement divisions numbered in the 140-190-ish range.

In 1942 they were moved into France, the Low Countries, Poland or behind the Eastern Front to double as occupation divisions while continuing to train men as well. They were redesignated Reserve Divisions. The Ostheer did not like this arrangement as the reserve divisions in the East got so diverted by anti-partisan operations that their men were unable to complete training before being posted to their associated Feldheer divisions.

Back in their wehrkreis the new reserve divisions were replaced by an equal number of new replacement divisions numbered in the low 400 series, that continued basic training in their original depots.

For more on this, try AHF threads titled "Walküre-Gneisenau-Blücher" and "What were the Ersatzheer's Reserve Divisions for?"

As far as I know, the only other army that had a similar situation of using training divisions as occupation troops was the British Indian Army. The Indian divisions of PAI Force in the Middle East prepared battalions that were fed as complete replacement units into the Indian Army divisions on operations in North Africa and Italy.

Cheers,

Sid.

P.S. Ironmachine's link below illustrates such developments in WKIX.

[Ironmachine]

Good to know, thank you. But neither the excellent lexikonderwehrmacht, nor axishistory, nor diedeutschewehrmacht.de, nor any other well-informed websites that I know mention it.

Actually, axishistory does mention it:

Div.Nr.189 (189.Replacement and Training Division)
Home Station: Kassel.
- Sep.1939: Formed as Div.Nr.189
- 26 Sep.1942: Restructured as the 189.Res.Div. while stationed in Friedberg, it was sent to France shortly afterwards but lost its Replacement units to Div.Nr.409.

http://www.axishistory.com/axis-nations ... hrkreis-ix

[CNE503]

Indeed, my mistake Ironmachine. I thank both of you for your help.

Actually, I don't believe that this division was known as the Division Nr.189 at this time because the very first ones to be numbered replacement divisions (known as Divisionen Nr.) were the Divisionen Nr.152 and Nr.155. They took this designation on November 9th, 1939. The other ones were numbered from November 28th (Division Nr.143) to January 16th, 1940 (Division Nr.165).

Before that, every replacement division was known as "whatever-its-number" Division (151. Division, 153. Division, 160. Division, etc.). They were numbered this way between November 4th and November 15th, 1939. And before that, they were named Kommandeure der Ersatztruppen (either numbered according to the Wehrkreis number only - Kommandeur der Ersatztruppen XI - or if there were two troops replacement regional commands with the Wehrkreis number and a second number: Kommandeure der Ersatztruppen 1./V and 2./V for instance).

So my guess is that there was no Division Nr.189 until at the earliest mid-November 1939, probably not before December 1939. There was probably a 189. Division in November. And maybe it was raised in Cassel on October 25th, 1939 (according to Generalmajor zV Paul Bauer's biography) as Kommandeur der Ersatztruppen 2./IX.

What do you think about this?

Cheers,

CNE503

[CNE503]

Unfortunately, I'm not able to track any replacement unit which was subordinated to another Wehrkreis IX replacement division than Division Nr.159 or later, from January 1940, Division Nr.179...
I tried to find something concerning the Schützen Ersatz Regiment 81, the Infanterie Ersatz-Regiment (motorisiert) 29, the Infanterie Ersatz-Regimenter 9, 15, 52, 214 and 251, their subordinated battalions, the Artillerie Ersatz-Regimenter 9 and 15, the Pionier Ersatz-Bataillone 9 and 29, and even such specific replacement unit as Fla Ersatz-Bataillon 59 or Heeres-Flakartillerie Ersatz-Bataillon 279. In vain.

An US Army document from early 1944 listed specifically the following reserve units from Wehrkreis IX:
- 159 late 1942 (from Div. Nr.)
- 179 Pz autumn 1943 (from Div. Nr.)
- 189 late 1942 (from Div. Nr.)

So it should have been created before the appearance of the 189. Reserve Division indeed.
What an interesting puzzle game, but so many pieces are missing!

Cheers,

CNE503

[Rossano]

Hello
In Bauer' s mil. career it' s stated that he commanded the 189.Div. 25.10.39-15.4.41. There is no mention (not even in Tessin) that he was before Kdr. d. Ers.Tr. 2./IX.
I always wondered (if this division exhisted and was renamed 189.Res.Div. in Sept. 42) who was Bauer' s successor until 9.42.
Rossano

[CNE503]

Well, if we consider the other divisions, what do we find?

177. Division was raised on November 4th, 1939;
188. Division on November 5th, 1939;
172. and 182. Divisionen on November 7th, 1939;
153. and 160. Divisionen on November 8th, 1939;
157., 159., 171., 173. and 187. Divisionen on November 9th, 1939;
154., 158. and 165. Divisionen on November 10th, 1939;
151. Division on November 13th, 1939;
156. and 166. Divisionen on November 15th, 1939;
193. Division on November 29th, 1939.

I don't know when was raised 180. Division exactly, but it was in November 1939 also.

So I guess that 189. Division was not raised under this designation on October 25th, 1939. It would have been the very first one to be numbered, ten days before the first well-documented one. It is doubtful although not impossible. But I doubt that it was. So it should have been something else. I propose Kommandeur der Ersatztruppen 2./IX but you're right, there is no evidence of it. As there are very few evidences concerning the division numbered 189 before September 1942...

Cheers,

CNE503

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi CNE305,

I don't think they were so much "raised" as created to administer existing Ersatzheer training units.

Cheers,

Sid.

[CNE503]

Hi Sid,

You're right, I should have use the term "create".
177. Division was created on November 4th, 1939;
[...]
So I guess that 189. Division was not created under this designation on October 25th, 1939. It would have been the very first one to be numbered, ten days before the first well-documented one. It is doubtful although not impossible. But I doubt that it was. So it should have been something else. I propose Kommandeur der Ersatztruppen 2./IX but you're right, there is no evidence of it. As there are very few evidences concerning the division numbered 189 before September 1942.

Cheers,

CNE503

[oquaig]

"189. Reservediv.: September 1942 im Westen aufgestellt, September 1944 in 189 Inf Div."

From Muller Hildebrandt: Das Heer page 314.

It never existed before September 1942.

[CNE503]

Oquaig,

Please read the thread from the start. Some sources, including NARA records, do state that a division numbered 189 existed from October 1939. But you're right, 189. Reserve Division was created, like the major parts of the reserve divisions, in fall 1942.
The question is from what unit? And there is no reserve division which was raised from scratch at this time, they were all formed from training elements of the replacement units. From numbered replacement divisions. Like Division Nr.189 should have been.

Cheers,

CNE503

[CNE503]

I dig up this thread because it let several unanswered questions.
Has anyone something about this 189. Division or Division Nr.189 before it became 189. Reserve Division?

CNE503

[GregSingh]

Tessin doesn't mention Division Nr.189 at all.