Why did Wehrkreis XX only support one field division?

[CNE503]

Christoph, very interesting, as usual. Thank you.
To give an accurate comparison, do you know whether the other Wehrkreise set up a similar number of Korpstruppen or this kind of subunits or more?

Cheers,

CNE503

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Christoph,

I have been checking on the wehrkreis affiliations of the divisions to which your list of march battalions raised in WKXX were sent.

Nine went to a WKVI division, six to a WKIX division, five to a WKXI division, one to a WKV division and one to a WKVIII division.

This reveals a clear picture: 21 out of 22 WKXX march battalions went to a division raised in one of four wehrkreises in the west of Germany.

If this is typical, it appears that, with the exception of 60th Division, there was a deliberate policy of sending Germans enlisted from Danzig-West Preussen to divisions raised on the other side of the country. Presumably this was to help reassimilate, or assimilate, many of them into the Reich after 20 years in Poland.

Interestingly, this reflects an interwar Polish policy affecting the same area. The Poles sent Ukrainian and Byelorussian conscripts from eastern Poland to serve in divisions with depots in western Poland, including areas later integrated into WKXX. Germans from these areas were sent to divisions in the east.

I suppose it is theoretically possible that a single ethnic German from the area could have first done his Polish conscription in eastern Poland and later German retraining in western Germany.

Cheers,

Sid.

[CNE503]

Well Sid, it is a very interesting analysis. I agree with your conclusions. I add one thing: according to Christoph's data, two out of nine 10. Welle divisions raised in May 1940 were scheduled to be raised in Wehrkreis XX. A real surge was done at this time in Wehrkreis XX to create second-class units which were finally disbanded while forming. My interpretation is that except one division (the 60. Infanterie Division, raised from a convinced German nationalist militia), the Wehrkreis population either was not trusted to create independant combined-arms units, or was not numerous enough to do so.

Cheers,

CNE503

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi CNE503,

I guess victory in France may have taken the urgency out of mobilizing WKXX.

Another problem may have been that the conscript training local Germans received in the Polish army in the 1920s and 1930s would have been incompatible with modern German training. So, although it is likely that a much higher proportion of WKXX's Germans had undergone military training over 1920-1935 than of the Versailles-restricted Alt Reich population, they required retraining. It is also probable that there was a shortage of trained officers locally, as I guess the Poles would have kept most command functions in their inter-war army in their own hands.

Danzig and Elbing are different cases from the more rural areas formerly in Poland, in that they already had German-trained and equipped armed forces at the outbreak of war. 60th Division was based on them.

60th Division was not raised from a local nationalist militia, although the SA undoubtedly had a strong presence in the city. Its predecessor, Brigade Danzig, was largely created from the expanded local Landespolizei territorial police of the Free City under seconded German Army officers in mid 1939, into which SA manpower was fed. WKI provided specialists and heavy weapons secretly and a number of local government employees and students had undergone military training or full conscript service in Germany in the late 1930s. The Landespolizei in the Alt Reich had been absorbed into the army in the mid 1930s, so Danzig was following a precedent.

60th Division's SA affiliations were more apparent than real, and were much reinforced when it was rebuilt as the Felherrnhalle.

Cheers,

Sid.

P.S. Do you have any idea what divisional number were allocated to the two Welle 10 divisions due to be created in WKXX?

[CNE503]

Well, Christoph said it was the 272. and 280. Infanterie Divisionen, and I totally trust what he says (it's an habit I decided to adopt a long time ago ).
The SA-Brigade "Eberhardt" (the one you call Brigade "Danzig") was made with local nazi volunteers as well as policemen if I remember well, don't I?

Cheers,

CNE503

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi CNE503,

As far as I know, VGAD, a frontier force formed for Danzig in 1939, (http://www.axishistory.com/axis-nations ... ienst-vgad) was the only SA unit fielded.

I have never seen Brigade Danzig (aka Brigade Eberhardt) referred to as SA-Brigade Eberhardt. Do you have a source? I can find four internet links, all of which may well be incestuous and none of which offers a source.

Friedrich-Georg Eberhardt was a German army officer who had served in WWI and the Reichsweher and was on the active list of the Wehrmacht when he was transferred to Danzig in mid 1939 for the purpose of militarizing the city. i know of no SA affiliation.

I have little doubt that much or most of the manpower added to the two Landespolizei-derived infantry regiments in mid 1939 was also on the rolls of the Danzig SA, but Brigade Danzig was organized, equipped and commanded by the German Army in mid 1939 and absorbed directly into it on 1 September 1939.

Cheers,

Sid.

[CNE503]

Well Sid, it seems that I didn't remember so well, doesn't it?
You easily convinced me - if there was a need to do so - that this brigade-size force from Danzig wasn't a SA force. But it doesn't mean that it didn't incorporate some SA militiamen, and I think we agree on this point. What was the figures? How strong was this versärkter Grenzaufsichtsdienst and how many of its members joined the Brigade "Eberhardt"?

Cheers,

CNE503

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi CNE503,

From memory, VGAD was of battalion size. It was not an organic part of Brigade Danzig/Eberhardt, but was subordinated to it for operational purposes during the campaign of September 1939.

Cheers,

Sid.

[CNE503]

Sid,

Have you a detailed organizational chart (or an equivalent document that explains its organization) for Brigade "Eberhardt" early September 1939?
Thanks for your answers.

Cheers,

CNE503

[Leo Niehorster]

Here's a diagram, as per NARA T314/660

[schwarzermai]

Hello leo

more informations about Artillerie-Abteilung Danzig?
Can you show the original NARA Scan please?
thank you!
Uwe

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi CNE503,

I think the Hacker battalion may have been VGAD. (G = Grenschutz?)

Again from memory, I think there may also have been a small coastal or harbour patrol unit raised from SA sources.

The artillery battalion was supplied by WKI. The guns were smuggled in by sea to avoid the Polish customs guards on Danzig's land border with East Prussia. Written sources differ as to whether it had German or Czech 105mm or 100mm guns. However, a photo clearly shows a German leFH 105 mm firiing at the Danzig post office on the morning of 1 September.

There was also a heavy and a light AA battery in the city and photos indicate that the reconnaissance unit had some early German six-wheeled armoured cars. (http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... g#p1651782)

Cheers,

Sid.

P.S. Have you tried: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... g&start=15 ? Peter K's post of 03 Oct 2010 00:01 has a lot of orbat detail. Indeed, the whole thread is a gem, largely thanks to Tigre, and is one of the best on AHF ever. Highly recommended.

I see I posted the following on the thread regarding the SA in Danzig:

"It seems that the three SA-Standarte had no autonomous military role in 1939, largely because their best manpower had been taken over by the army and used to form most of Brigade Eberhart. This SA connection was recognized when Brigade Eberhart became 60th Motorized Infantry Division after the Polish Campaign. It and its successor, the Feldherrnhalle Division, were the only German Army formations that had recognized SA affiliations.

I suspect that 6. SA-Reiter Standarte may have contributed towards Brigade Eberhart's reconnaissance company, but have no evidence for this.

The SA units that definitely did take up positions on Danzig's land and sea borders were the Verstarker Grenzaufsichsichstdienst Bataillon (which may be the same as SA-Grenzwacht Btl. "Hacker"), and SA-Marinesturmbann Kustenschutz Danzig (270 ludzi + 2 działka 20mm)."

[CNE503]

Leo, Sid,

Thanks a lot for your contributions.
I will read that thread as soon as possible, it seems of the highest value indeed.
If I understand your last comment, Sid, SA did provide a lot of men to Brigade "Eberhardt" ("their best manpower (of the three Danziger SA-Standarten) had been [...] used to form most of Brigade Eberhart"). Another tough one, I guess!

Cheers,

CNE503

[Sid Guttridge]

Also try: http://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/index ... ei-Danzig/

I can't find the strength of the Landespolizei after 6 September 1935, when it stood at 865. However, this was already far above its official establishment of 356. By September 1 1939, just the two infantry regiments must have had about 6,000 men. Most of the difference between 865 and about 6,000 were presumably younger SA members.

Cheers,

Sid.

[CNE503]

That would explain why there are many references to a SA-Brigade "Eberhardt", indeed. I'm currently reading the excellent topic you adviced me to read.

Cheers,

CNE503