Feldausbildungs-Abteilung 178 ?
Feldausbildungs-Abteilung 178 ?
Hello,
In found in several secondary sources this designation. I assume that it refers to the 78. Infanterie-Division field replacement battalion, whose correct name should have been Feldersatz-Bataillon 178, but I may be wrong.
In particular, this name seems related to Ritterkreuzträger Hauptmann Albert Schneider, who received the prestigious Knight's Cross on December 23rd, 1942 for his actions at the head of the "FeldAusb.Abt. 178". He was a member of the 78. Infanterie-Division at this time.
Any educated guess? I think it is only a typo for Feldersatz Bataillon 178, but I may miss something here...
Thanks!
Cheers,
CNE503
In found in several secondary sources this designation. I assume that it refers to the 78. Infanterie-Division field replacement battalion, whose correct name should have been Feldersatz-Bataillon 178, but I may be wrong.
In particular, this name seems related to Ritterkreuzträger Hauptmann Albert Schneider, who received the prestigious Knight's Cross on December 23rd, 1942 for his actions at the head of the "FeldAusb.Abt. 178". He was a member of the 78. Infanterie-Division at this time.
Any educated guess? I think it is only a typo for Feldersatz Bataillon 178, but I may miss something here...
Thanks!
Cheers,
CNE503
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"
- schwarzermai
- Member
- Posts: 1418
- Joined: 09 Mar 2013, 07:52
- Location: Germany
Re: Feldausbildungs-Abteilung 178 ?
hello
in 1942 the Divisions didnt have their own kriegsgliederungsmäßiges (and etatisiertes) Feld-Ersatz-Bataillon
Feld-Ersatz-Bataillon stand in 1942 for supplying of replacments of soldier from Ersatzheer from B.d.E.-area to Feldheer (Heeresgruppe, Army, Korps and so on) - maybe named Feld Ers.Btl. 78/1, 78/2 and so on...
starting in 1943 the divisions of east-Heer get their own Feld-Ersatz-Bataillon as part of the divisions
and i think "Feld-Ausb.Abt. or Btl." for 1942 matched ...
die Org.Abt. definiert Feld-Ers.Btl. und Marsch-Btl. in der ersten Januar Woche 1942 wie folgt - Zitat:
"Die Zusammenfassung des gesamten Ersatzes für das Ostheer erfolgt in Felders.- bzw. Marsch-Batle. mit einer Stärke von je 1000 Mann.
Die Felders.Batlne werden mit der Bahn bzw. im Kw.Transport bis in die Nähe ihrer Bestimmungs-Div. zugeführt, während die Marschbatl. bei der H.Gr. Mitte von der Reichsgrenze, bei der H.Gr.Süd von Eisenbahnendpunkten, die 6-700 km von der Front entfernt liegen, marschieren müssen. Dementsprechend werden diese Batl. ausgerüstet."
uwe
in 1942 the Divisions didnt have their own kriegsgliederungsmäßiges (and etatisiertes) Feld-Ersatz-Bataillon
Feld-Ersatz-Bataillon stand in 1942 for supplying of replacments of soldier from Ersatzheer from B.d.E.-area to Feldheer (Heeresgruppe, Army, Korps and so on) - maybe named Feld Ers.Btl. 78/1, 78/2 and so on...
starting in 1943 the divisions of east-Heer get their own Feld-Ersatz-Bataillon as part of the divisions
and i think "Feld-Ausb.Abt. or Btl." for 1942 matched ...
die Org.Abt. definiert Feld-Ers.Btl. und Marsch-Btl. in der ersten Januar Woche 1942 wie folgt - Zitat:
"Die Zusammenfassung des gesamten Ersatzes für das Ostheer erfolgt in Felders.- bzw. Marsch-Batle. mit einer Stärke von je 1000 Mann.
Die Felders.Batlne werden mit der Bahn bzw. im Kw.Transport bis in die Nähe ihrer Bestimmungs-Div. zugeführt, während die Marschbatl. bei der H.Gr. Mitte von der Reichsgrenze, bei der H.Gr.Süd von Eisenbahnendpunkten, die 6-700 km von der Front entfernt liegen, marschieren müssen. Dementsprechend werden diese Batl. ausgerüstet."
uwe
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=223633
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/
Re: Feldausbildungs-Abteilung 178 ?
Hello Schwarzemai,
Ok for that, but I believed that a lot of Ostheer divisions raised their field replacement battalion before the start of Barbarossa, in Spring 1941. Do you mean that their designation wasn't unify at this time and that some were called Feldersatz-Bataillone whereas others were Feldausbildungs-Abteilungen?
As a matter of fact, I assume from your post that the correct designation for the divisional replacement battalion in 1942 could have been either Feldersatz-Bataillon or Feldausbildungs-Abteilung, am I right? It could imply that the divisional battalion for 78. Infanterie Division in 1942 was called Feldausbildungs-Abteilung 178, correct?
Cheers,
CNE503
Ok for that, but I believed that a lot of Ostheer divisions raised their field replacement battalion before the start of Barbarossa, in Spring 1941. Do you mean that their designation wasn't unify at this time and that some were called Feldersatz-Bataillone whereas others were Feldausbildungs-Abteilungen?
As a matter of fact, I assume from your post that the correct designation for the divisional replacement battalion in 1942 could have been either Feldersatz-Bataillon or Feldausbildungs-Abteilung, am I right? It could imply that the divisional battalion for 78. Infanterie Division in 1942 was called Feldausbildungs-Abteilung 178, correct?
Cheers,
CNE503
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"
- schwarzermai
- Member
- Posts: 1418
- Joined: 09 Mar 2013, 07:52
- Location: Germany
Re: Feldausbildungs-Abteilung 178 ?
no. you have to difference between Feldheer vs. Ersatzheer
all the divisional-feld-ers-btl. from 1941 were used for filling upthe losses of the early mnths of barbarossa.
so at the end of 1941 all divisional-feld-ers-btl. were disbanded.
in early 1942 the designation "Feld-Ersatz-Bataillon" was'nt any longer a Feldheer-designation, its now just a Ersatzheer-designation to marked clear the way to the front - used for bataillons which were transported by train or by Trcuks to their destination-Division
- so the your main question "
In found in several secondary sources this designation. I assume that it refers to the 78. Infanterie Division field replacement battalion, whose correct name should have been Feldersatz Bataillon 178, but I may be wrong."
78. Inf.Div. havent in 1942 a Feld-Ers-Btl. but an Feld-Ausbildungs-Batailon. i think these were created at "Kommandoweg" and it was not with Etat (budget)
But in 1943 the designation changed again from Ersatzheer to feldheer an all division of Ostheer get their own Feld.Ers.Btl. (with divisions-Kampfschule)
Uwe
all the divisional-feld-ers-btl. from 1941 were used for filling upthe losses of the early mnths of barbarossa.
so at the end of 1941 all divisional-feld-ers-btl. were disbanded.
in early 1942 the designation "Feld-Ersatz-Bataillon" was'nt any longer a Feldheer-designation, its now just a Ersatzheer-designation to marked clear the way to the front - used for bataillons which were transported by train or by Trcuks to their destination-Division
- so the your main question "
In found in several secondary sources this designation. I assume that it refers to the 78. Infanterie Division field replacement battalion, whose correct name should have been Feldersatz Bataillon 178, but I may be wrong."
78. Inf.Div. havent in 1942 a Feld-Ers-Btl. but an Feld-Ausbildungs-Batailon. i think these were created at "Kommandoweg" and it was not with Etat (budget)
But in 1943 the designation changed again from Ersatzheer to feldheer an all division of Ostheer get their own Feld.Ers.Btl. (with divisions-Kampfschule)
Uwe
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=223633
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/
Re: Feldausbildungs-Abteilung 178 ?
Uwe,
It makes perfectly sense, thanks! I understand that this unit was not "etatisiert", but what you mean by "Kommandoweg"? Chain of command decision?
It leads to another (little but tricky) question: what was its correct designation, Bataillon or Abteilung?
Several secondary sources evoke a Feldausbildungs-Abteilung 178 or "F.A.A. 178", am I right assuming that it was its correct name in 1942?
Cheers,
CNE503
It makes perfectly sense, thanks! I understand that this unit was not "etatisiert", but what you mean by "Kommandoweg"? Chain of command decision?
It leads to another (little but tricky) question: what was its correct designation, Bataillon or Abteilung?
Several secondary sources evoke a Feldausbildungs-Abteilung 178 or "F.A.A. 178", am I right assuming that it was its correct name in 1942?
Cheers,
CNE503
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"
- schwarzermai
- Member
- Posts: 1418
- Joined: 09 Mar 2013, 07:52
- Location: Germany
Re: Feldausbildungs-Abteilung 178 ?
CNE503 wrote:Ubut what you mean by "Kommandoweg"? Chain of command decision?
CNE503
yes
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=223633
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/
Re: Feldausbildungs-Abteilung 178 ?
Thank you Uwe.
Cheers,
CNE503
Cheers,
CNE503
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"
Re: Feldausbildungs-Abteilung 178 ?
Hello,
I dig up this thread because I read a lot about the 78. Infanterie Division in 1942 and I found several valuable informations:
- a Feldausbildungs-Abteilung 178 did exist in August 1942. Das Buch der 78. Sturmdivision states the following for an action that took place on August 11th, 1942: "[...] denn die ohnehin schwache F.A.A. 178 mit Stab und einer Kompanie, mussten am Waldrand südwestlich Prochory als Rückhalt eingesetzt werden, da auch dort die Lage unklar war" (p.164).
- apparently, the Feldausbildungs-Abteilung 178 had a Lehrkompanie (of the Divisions-Ausbildungsschule), at least in November 1942: "Der Div.Gefechtsstand lag in Krjukowo. Dort traf gegen 20 00 Uhr die Lehrkompanie der Div.Ausbildungsschule unter Hauptmann Ko (ie Kohler) ein, die den Auftrag bekam, nach Lopotok zu rücken und dort eine Riegelstellung zu erkundenund zu besetzen" (p.190). Its commander was awarded the Knight's Cross for his gallantry in the heavy fights in Maloe Kropotovo on November 30th, 1942 (he was commanding an Eingreifgruppe of the regimental Kampfgruppe Reissinger, from Grenadier-Regiment 215).
- of course, this Lehrkompanie was not the whole Feldausbildungs-Abteilung 178 strength, because this unit also fought at this time. Its commander, Hauptmann Schneider, was awarded the Knight's Cross for his actions on December 11th and 12th, 1942 in Podosinovka.
My question is the following one: do you think that this Lehrkompanie was a company made of the instructors of the Feldausbildungs-Abteilung? Or was it an ad hoc unit made of scratch, particularly young recruits who were at this time in the divisional training unit?
Thanks!
Cheers,
CNE503
I dig up this thread because I read a lot about the 78. Infanterie Division in 1942 and I found several valuable informations:
- a Feldausbildungs-Abteilung 178 did exist in August 1942. Das Buch der 78. Sturmdivision states the following for an action that took place on August 11th, 1942: "[...] denn die ohnehin schwache F.A.A. 178 mit Stab und einer Kompanie, mussten am Waldrand südwestlich Prochory als Rückhalt eingesetzt werden, da auch dort die Lage unklar war" (p.164).
- apparently, the Feldausbildungs-Abteilung 178 had a Lehrkompanie (of the Divisions-Ausbildungsschule), at least in November 1942: "Der Div.Gefechtsstand lag in Krjukowo. Dort traf gegen 20 00 Uhr die Lehrkompanie der Div.Ausbildungsschule unter Hauptmann Ko (ie Kohler) ein, die den Auftrag bekam, nach Lopotok zu rücken und dort eine Riegelstellung zu erkundenund zu besetzen" (p.190). Its commander was awarded the Knight's Cross for his gallantry in the heavy fights in Maloe Kropotovo on November 30th, 1942 (he was commanding an Eingreifgruppe of the regimental Kampfgruppe Reissinger, from Grenadier-Regiment 215).
- of course, this Lehrkompanie was not the whole Feldausbildungs-Abteilung 178 strength, because this unit also fought at this time. Its commander, Hauptmann Schneider, was awarded the Knight's Cross for his actions on December 11th and 12th, 1942 in Podosinovka.
My question is the following one: do you think that this Lehrkompanie was a company made of the instructors of the Feldausbildungs-Abteilung? Or was it an ad hoc unit made of scratch, particularly young recruits who were at this time in the divisional training unit?
Thanks!
Cheers,
CNE503
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"
- schwarzermai
- Member
- Posts: 1418
- Joined: 09 Mar 2013, 07:52
- Location: Germany
Re: Feldausbildungs-Abteilung 178 ?
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=223633
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/
Re: Feldausbildungs-Abteilung 178 ?
Well Üwe, I'm pretty sure this one presents a lot of interest, but I'm totally unable to translate it properly!
It seems that the 2. Panzerarmee divisions didn't raise such units even if it was authorized when supply with resting troops. Am I right?
Cheers,
CNE503
It seems that the 2. Panzerarmee divisions didn't raise such units even if it was authorized when supply with resting troops. Am I right?
Cheers,
CNE503
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"