Detailed Questions on 91. Luftlande-Div. – Gliederung or KStN needed

[sboyd2kus]

I am trying to run down detailed (tactical organization) info on the 91st LL-Div in the opening days of D-Day, concentrating on the period 5 – 13 Jun 44.
I have found that there are several versions of the divisional OB on the net, including Niehorster, Tessin, Chef des Stabs, Lexicon der Wehrmacht, and several other primary and secondary sites.
Unfortunately, they disagree on several items, and I think the only way to sort this out is to access the unit Gleiderung from May to June timeframe.

Gliederung/KStN Questions I have:

Artillery Regt 191/ 91 LL
1 - According to the unit OBs, AR 191 was a Mountain Artillery regiment.
OBs for I Btn (1,2,3 Ko), and II Btn (4,5,6 Ko) show them armed with GebH40 105mm Mountain howitzers.
However, 3 and 6 Ko were definitely not armed with GebH40; from pictorial and physical evidence, they were definitely leFH 18/40.
>>Only a Gleiderung will settle what 1,2,4,5 were armed with.

2 - Most OBs for III Btn (7,8,9 Ko) show it armed with sFH 18 150mm howitzers. However, several note that for the 89th and 91st Divisions, this Btn was instead equipped with 88mm Pak.
>>>Only a Gleiderung will settle what 7,8,9 Ko were armed with (88 Pak 41 or Pak 41/43 or even Pak 36; or 150mm sFH18)

HQ or Fusilier Btn
3 - An Armored Car was sighted in the vicinity of Timmes Orchard during this period. I have seen comments that there was an AC platoon in the 91 LL, but cannot verify that in any published OB.
>>Would it have been in the HQ or Fusilier Btn? Or from some other unit? Gliederung confirmation?

4 - Some OB show a Fusilier Btn; some show only a company.
>>Which was it, and what was its composition?

Engineer (Pionier) Btn or company?
5 - Some OB show a Btn, some a Co.
>>Which was it and what was its composition (if a Btn, how many companies)?
>>Was this the unit at La Fiere Manor on 6 Jun 44?

AT (PanzerJaeger) Btn or company?
6 – At least one OB shows a Btn, most a company.
>>Which was it and what was its composition?

Non-Gliederung questions
7 – 1057 Grenadier Btn deployments against 82nd Abn Div on Mederet River Line.
I have been able to ascertain from Soldbuch/Wehrpass research that the III Btn/1057GR (and possibly the Pionier unit, initially) was the primary unit opposing the La Fiere bridgehead over the Mederet River.
>>Has anyone seen the locations of the I Btn and II Btn /1057GR on 7 Jun 44? I assume one would be opposing the Chef du Pont bridgehead, and the other operating around Amfreville.

Thanks for any help!!

-Sharon Boyd

[jopaerya]

Here the Art.Rgt. 191 on three dates 10-05-1944 , 18-06-1944 and 01-07-1944

Regards Jos

[NagaSadow]

Hello!

According to the preliminary combat report of 91. Inf.Div. there was only a Div.Füs.Kp. 191 and Pz.Jg.Kp. 191. The Pi.Btl. had two companies.
As for Art.Rgt. 191 the 6.6. Gliederung in the report is identical to the 1.7. Gliederung posted above minus the 7,5/7,62 batteries.
The 10.6. Gliederung shows I./191 with 1. and 2. as mountain batteries and III./191 with 7. and 9. as Pak batteries under Art.Rgt. 243. II./191 with 4. (mountain) and 8.(Pak) under Fsch.Jg.Rgt. 6.
The 18.6. Gliederung is posted above minus I./191 (1. with 4x mountain howitzers and 4x 7,5cm K.(b), 2. with 4x mountain howitzers and 3x 7,5cm K.(t)) and III./191 (7. and 9. with 4x Pak each) still with Art.Rgt. 243.
The Gliederung (18.6.-28.6.) of Kampfgruppe König has Art.Rgt. 191 with I./191 (1. with 2x 7,5cm K.(b), 2. with 2x 7,5cm K.(t) and 4. with 2x 10,5cm Geb.H.) and III./191 (5. with 4x 7,5cm K., 7. and 9. each with 3x 8,8 cm Pak).
The Gliederung dated 20.6. has Art.Rgt. 191 with I./191 (identical to 18.6. of K.Gr. König), II./191 (8. as a Pak battery without any guns) and III./191 (identical to 18.6. of K.Gr. König).

[sboyd2kus]

Wow - those are fantastic! Incredibly helpful!!

I'll have to digest them:

On 10 May 44 Gleiderung:
Note: Abteilung Schmidt ( 3 Ko and 6 Ko from 191 AR, both with LeFH 18/40) is not depicted.
Those are the units at Holdy and Brecourt.

On 18 Jun 44 Gleiderung:
Note also: The II Btn, cdr is named Rock. Von der Heydte ( Cdrt, 6 FJ Regt) in Lions of Carentan, mentions that he organized the 4 ko and 8 ko 191 (supporting III/1058 GR/91 which he absorbed along with its supporting arty) with additional assets received later into Artillery Group Rock under the commander of II/191 AR for the battle for Carentan. This confirms that.

I would say this definitively shows III/191 was armed with 88 Pak. ( Pak 41 or 36?) Von der Heydt mentions 8 Ko knocking out the steeple at Saint-Come du-Mont from Carentan with " tank shells" to keep the US from using it as a Fwd Obs post. He didn't say they fired 88s, but I suspected it. This confirms it.

I would also say it settles the 1,2,4,5 ko as being armed with GebH 40 (because the 1/177 has obvious 105 leFH 18/40 depiction by contrast)

Is the entire Gliederung available for 10.05.44?
It would answer the other questions, probably!
The 6.6.44 Gliederung and the combat report is also interesting, can it also be posted?

Again - much thanks, I am elated!

[jpz4]

Few things: (some to confirm what you're thinking, some to add some details)
- It's not the Gliederung for 10.5., its 10.6. Around the time of the invasion. Abt. Schmidt should not be listed since it was 'detached' from the division before D-Day, and by 10 June it no longer existed anyway.
- And yes, only 3. and 6. had 18/40. These were probably a left over from the reinforced Gren.Rgt.1025 which already had two batteries and was used to build the division. There is no reason to assume the rest of those battalions had anything other than the Geb.H.40 on D-Day. (The presence of three batteries in the light battalions of a 25.Welle division is odd, but the 91.LL. was of course no standard division)
- Yes, Hptm. Rock was the commander of II./A.R.191
- Third battalion had Pak, which was rather standard for a 25.Welle division (not an ideal choice though). Sources on the Pak are a bit vague, but it seems most likely they were Pak 43. The Pak 43/41 is less likely because it is never mentioned. Other types can be ignored.
- No antitank battalion. Just a company. There was a Fla-Kp. as well, but the two were not combined in a battalion.
- Only a Füs.Kp., which was just infantry, no armored cars. Without proof there is no reason to assume there were armored cars in the area at all. Just the tanks from Pz.Ers.u.Ausb.Abt.100
- There was Pi.Btl., with two companies.

There is much more to tell, both about the organization and fighting, but I know people have been working on a book about this division and I don't wan't to spoil it for them (I believe they do have an official pre-D-Day Kriegsgliederung) Their book will have a lot of detailed information, much more than my own project.

BTW, does anyone have the original orders to change the division into a Luftlande division? I seem to be hitting a brick wall on that one. It's preventing me from finishing my own chapter about the division.

[NagaSadow]

Hello!

91. Inf.Div. had Pak 43 as mentioned in Gen.d.Art. report [General der Artillerie beim Chef Gen.St.d.H.(Ib) Nr. 2570/44 geh. v. 05.04.1944] about a meeting with In 4:
"(...) 3 schwere Abteilungen der Div. 25. Welle sind bereits mit Pak 43 ausgestattet (77, 89, 91.)."

[Manuferey]

There is no reason to assume the rest of those battalions had anything other than the Geb.H.40 on D-Day.

Indeed and here is a German officer confirming it in July 1944:
“A.R. 191 hatte sehr bald keine Munition mehr für die Gebirgsgeschütze der 1., 2., 4. u. 5./191."

Source: Notes from Hauptmann Rüdt – Arko 118 – July 1944

Emmanuel

[sboyd2kus]

Good infos, all!
When are the 91LL books coming out? I will be sure to buy - especially if auf English!
Do the records go into the detail of unit garrisons? What company was garrisoned in the village of Gueutteville, FR, just SW of the La Fiere crossing of the Mederet?

Also - were the initial defenders of La Fiere Manoir one of the Engineer companies. I think I read one company was in Ste. Mere-Eglise and moved to La Fiere early 6 Jun 44 ( the other company seems to have been down in the Carentan area according to von der Hydte).

I am trying to put together OB for the various phases of fighting at the La Fiere crossing. Most likely initial defenders are one Eng ko., joined by fusilier ko and divisional stab - until later when the III Bn/1057GR and elem of Pz. Abt 100 moved in to assault late in the day.

[jpz4]

Hello Sharon, just sent you a private message.
Niels

[Luft 76]

Hello

Just a remark : I don't know why people keep calling it "91. LL Division" while this unit is called Infantrie Division in all german orignals documents, including in 91.ID itself...

[sboyd2kus]

Not wanting to get into a fight, but the detailed information supplied to me describe it as either.
The Gliederungen do have 91 Inf. Division, but I am also seeing it referred to as 91. LL Division in 1944 documents in German.

[Luft 76]

No problem !
Yes, few mentions did exist for sure. But exepted some mountain artillery guns, this unit was raised and considered like a normal ID.

[NagaSadow]

No problem !
Yes, few mentions did exist for sure. But exepted some mountain artillery guns, this unit was raised and considered like a normal ID.

Also the 15cm sIG platoons of the 13th companies were replaced by 8cm Gr.W.34 platoons and the 14th anti-tank companies were ordered to reorganize as Pz.Zerst.Kp. with Panzerschreck and Panzerfaust instead of anti-tank guns.

[Luft 76]

Also the 15cm sIG platoons of the 13th companies were replaced by 8cm Gr.W.34 platoons and the 14th anti-tank companies were ordered to reorganize as Pz.Zerst.Kp. with Panzerschreck and Panzerfaust instead of anti-tank guns.

Many ID had not the regular weapons in their heavy companies. To my knowledge, none or very few had such 15 cm SIG you mentionned. Some have mortars, others 7,62 russian guns, others le IG 7,5 cm etc... They are lots of scenario. Have a look to the Kriegsgliederungen of the numerous ID who fought in Normandie : very few, perhaps none in fact, had the exact regular Kst.N of the 1944 ID model. 91.ID is a good example with its simple Füs. Kp., its single Pzjg. Kp...

[jpz4]

NagaSadow, do you know where I can find those original orders? Sounds like they will explain the situation as it was on D-Day, even where this did not match those orders.

Niels