Der Freiwillige (The Volunteer) - Waffen SS Veterans.

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Freikorps, Reichswehr, Austrian Bundesheer, Heer, Waffen-SS, Volkssturm and Fallschirmjäger and the other Luftwaffe ground forces. Hosted by Christoph Awender.
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Director
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#31

Post by Director » 17 May 2004, 16:15

Florian wrote:
Regarding the breakup of the HIAG on a national level I can tell you why as I asked Mr. Kumm the question in 2001 when I wrote to him. He answered that the HIAG split up the nation wide organisation when the youngest member had passed his 70th year of life and claimed that it had been the best that they had split up before becoming senile.
It's sad to hear of this...
Regional level HIAG "cells" still exist and meet regularly (see the news in the recent "Der Freiwillige" issues)
You're making it sound like an Odessa organisation! It isn't is it? :wink:

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Drew Maynard
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#32

Post by Drew Maynard » 17 May 2004, 16:55

Director:

I think you've got to slow down for a second. IMHO :D

Don't confuse HIAG with 'Der Spinne,' ODESSA or Gehlen's offspring. The mixture of all of them tends to conjure up a very 'hollywood nazi' theme.

Let's not fail to respect the veterans- of all sides- for starters and not diminish whatever service rendered to their country, by 'glamming' it up. the fact that HIAG was disbanded is a purely rational and respectful move. Waffen SS veterans had a lot of problems after the war where pensions, survivor's benefits, re-enlistment into the Bundeswehr, immigration to other countries, new employment etc., were heavily tainted by the image of the Waffen-SS and the immensely wide brush that it was painted with.

On a base level, the HIAG worked behind the scenes, like any quasi-lobby group, and serviceman's group, to proactively return men from behind the Iron Curtain, reinstate benefits and survivor's pensions, and general rights of the veterans involved.

I'm not flaming you, nor inciting a flamed conversation, just trying to debate the issue without becoming reactionary and trivilizing the motives of veterans. Just my 12 cents, is all.

For decent thread on the HIAG, http://www.wssob.com had an interesting thread on the aftermath of the war and treatment and actions of veterans and their respective associations.

After all, 'Treue und Treue' just didn't mean 'Führertreue' :)

Whew. Now I'm outta breath.

best regards

Vinland


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Director
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#33

Post by Director » 17 May 2004, 17:18

Vinland wrote:
Director:

I think you've got to slow down for a second. IMHO

Don't confuse HIAG with 'Der Spinne,' ODESSA or Gehlen's offspring. The mixture of all of them tends to conjure up a very 'hollywood nazi' theme.


Sorry, I don't think that at all about HIAG.
It was just sarcasm at how Florian wrote:
Quote:
Regional level HIAG "cells" still exist and meet regularly (see the news in the recent "Der Freiwillige" issues)


That's why I had a wink at the end, I have never thought of HIAG as a bad thing at all. I haven't thought of "Der Freiwillige" like that either. I just wanna see if it's leaning to the right. Sorry if it seemed like this. :D

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#34

Post by DarExc » 17 May 2004, 21:58

Is there a magazine like this for Wehrmacht veterans?

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Director
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#35

Post by Director » 18 May 2004, 15:27

Does Patrick Agte have an email address? Or the publishing company?(Munin Verlag) I'm not sending credit card details through snail mail! :D
Or even a fax number? There must be another way to contact them...

Edit: Sorry, stupid question! It's on the scan on the first page. :oops:

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Arminiusder Cherusker1
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Der Freiwillige

#36

Post by Arminiusder Cherusker1 » 18 May 2004, 18:15

Hi,
the e-mail-adress of the munin-verlag is :
[email protected]
Regards/Rudi

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Director
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#37

Post by Director » 18 May 2004, 18:32

Arminiusder Cherusker1, thank you very much!

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#38

Post by Panzermahn » 19 May 2004, 07:40

Hi Arminius,

it's been a long time...Is there any future plans for all the issues (back and future) of Der Freiwillge to be translated into English for the convenienvce of the English speaking people

Arminius, are you still a member of the HIAG. Bill Medland told us that since the HIAG was dissolved, he is still an honorary member?

How about HaEn?

John P. Moore
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#39

Post by John P. Moore » 19 May 2004, 07:54

People with a serious interest in this topic should learn to read German. It's not that difficult. Realistically, I doubt that there is a good business case for Munin Verlag to invest the time and money into translating these magazines into English. Most original German documents will NEVER be translated into English or French or Swedish and researchers who do not make the effort to learn German will miss out on an important source of information.

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#40

Post by Camp Upshur » 19 May 2004, 09:40

John,

Thank you for your informative postings re: Der Freiwillige.

Do (or did) Der Freiwillige editors post year end indices or compendiums of their articles / contents ? I ask because some of us have very narrow fields of interest which almost certainly have been covered some time or another in this magazine. These selective articles , if identified, could well justify individual translation.

Your point that these articles are available only in german and may not justify translation , economically, is well taken. However I cannot help but think that most of us who are intrigued with this field are english-speakers, and thus seemingly the market field. But I concede that this is something in which you most likely have more experience than I.

Lastly, absent immersion or a sponsored fellowship, learning fluent german concurrent with maintaining employment and familial responsibilities is quite an accomplishment. The observation that it may not be that difficult reminds me of how the Harrier guys talked about the AV-8A !

Thanks Again--Cheers

Camp Upshur

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HaEn
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HIAG

#41

Post by HaEn » 19 May 2004, 16:09

John P. Moore wrote:People with a serious interest in this topic should learn to read German. It's not that difficult. Realistically, I doubt that there is a good business case for Munin Verlag to invest the time and money into translating these magazines into English. Most original German documents will NEVER be translated into English or French or Swedish and researchers who do not make the effort to learn German will miss out on an important source of information.
Thanks John, Excellent point; mosttimes articles lose something in a translation anyway.
German is not that hard a language to learn, once you know the basics, you can immerse yourself, and the rest comes all by itself .
HN.

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#42

Post by Camp Upshur » 19 May 2004, 19:10

HaEn

I couldn't agree more with John's point , which you re-affirmed, that the material is best reviewed in german as well as your point about some diminution occurring through translation.

With no offense intended, may I ask : Was not german your native tongue ? Also immersion , as an idiom in the context of language skills , refers to being physically located in the environment without contact to your native tongue, an impossibility for many of us (even though I visit Germany usually twice a year). This is why I asked John the aforementioned questions regarding an index. I realize that this is, in many ways, asking for a crutch, but I hope he'll answer.

BTW, thank you for your many many informative and first hand postings. Many of us really enjoy them.

Cheers

Camp Upshur

Panzermahn
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#43

Post by Panzermahn » 20 May 2004, 07:50

John,

Thanks for your reply..and you're right, original documents in German should be read in Germans as not lose "something" But i believe english language is very profitable and had a wide range of market..If Freiwillge is piblished in English, the market is international and i believe the Freiwillege's market now confined to North America and Europe...Maybe the Mun-Verlag people should look at Asia (Japan is a good market, India and maybe China)

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HaEn
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tongue

#44

Post by HaEn » 21 May 2004, 05:41

Hi Upshur. No my "native" tongue was Dutch (Nederlands). of course one learned German, English and French in Highschool, but those actually are just the basics. The real understanding and "feeling" came through inmmersion as in: "everything said, and done, and written is in German at all times". Cheers. HN.

p.s. another good example is, that when we came to the US, my kids did not speak English; there were at the time no "English as second language" classes, so they immediately learned to swim or drown. All three have done verrrrrry well. This modern gobblygook of having to have English as a second language classes, is utter howwash. HN

Herero
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found interesting auction on ebay-germany...

#45

Post by Herero » 14 Jun 2004, 19:11

:D
Here`s an interesting auction... because the seller offers many of the very rare issues from 1970 to 1980.

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... RK:MESE:IT

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