High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

[Gastolli]

... twice as good ... ?

Wehrmachtsbericht said 224 tanks in Normandy

1. Kompanie = 51 kills (as per photo caption)
2. Kompanie = 61 kills (as per war diary)
3. Kompanie = 112 kills (the rest of it)

???

Don't know

[Michael Kenny]

So, this is the summary of the 1. Company's score in the Normandy !

Impossible. The Battalion claimed about 240 kills for Normandy , Kalss 1./s.SS-PzAbt.102 was the most successful unit with the best Panzer-Aces in it.

I have the 2nd kp diary. It is extremely detailed and they only claim 18 kills in July and 61 for July and August. If we take the 1st kp claim as 51 then they at least are in sync. This would leave 3rd kp with 128 claims!
Anyway this is all about claims not confirmed kills. Claims are always in excess of reality.

[carius]

Hi all!Is it really existed Uscha Oberhaber (s.SS-Pz.Abt.102???) - 127 kills?!!!?

Regards
George

[Hardigan]

Hi all!Is it really existed Uscha Oberhaber (s.SS-Pz.Abt.102???) - 127 kills?!!!?

These are 127 Panzer and AFV together , the same for Martin Schroif.

[Peter K]

Anyway this is all about claims not confirmed kills. Claims are always in excess of reality.

But everything is about claims when it comes to AFVs. There were no any confirmation procedures.

[Hardigan]

RKT SS-Hstuf. Paul Senghas claimed 49 Panzerkills with Pzkpw.IV . He received the DKiG after 30 Panzerkillls . For now the top scorer of "Wiking" .

[gliz2]

My first post here goes to Wittmann's score.
First of all he's mere 130+ is NOT such a GREAT achievement... Anyone heard of Dmitriy Lavrinenko? The fellow scored 52+ in Barbarossa with his T-34 as he knowed the advantages and disadvantaged of his machine. Just in five months he done that.
Look at Erich Hartmann's score or Ernst Rudel's. The Eastern Front was DIFFERENT. The Russians used Valentine tanks to hunt Tigers and Panthers and with great deal of success. But in general they relied on pure numbers not on some sublime tactics or personal skills. They equipment was of poor making but it was in numbers. And their tactical training was kind of what the Germans were getting from late 1944 - close to none.
So Wittman's 115+ from Eastern Front is not as impressive as it sounds. Yes he was a hell of a tanker but there were better ones out there. My personal fav is Otto Carius who did not even much bother about the scorekeeping. So there is something to both points of this argument:
1. Wittmann might have scored 130+ but it included a lot of of lighter armour like SPGs (esp. in 1943).
2. The Villers-Bocage was a single stunt by MW on Western Front therefore no Allied tankiest could have known him there. He got into one battle destroyed 20+ AFV and then got blowned by Typhoons.

BTW the Allied tankiest have feared Tigers (famous Tigerphobia) and there were occasions when the Brits refused to fight against the Tigers. Which is not such a silly thing to do when you see an open field of 2000 yards and a platoon of Tigers on the better end of it.

[piggychops]

Hi

If you were 2000m away from a Tiger ambush the protocol was

to go around them with a few fireflys and/or
call for a Jabo wih rockets

the same was true for Soviet heavies, if you were in a mark IV with a long 75, (or even a Tiger).

A Tiger was very vunarable to a side hit from a firefly even using solid shot (rather than APDS).
A Panther ditto with the standard Sherman 75m cannon.

There are those that say MW drove into an ambush and was hit in side armour, by a 17lb.

But if you have a list of tank and PAK kills, then I'd suggest Rudel desrves a foot note mention, his number of kills, party member, lots of missions with tin leg like Douglas Bader.

Rudel probably had a gun camera for his engegement, I think he needed to post a 40mm into a T-34's engine vent, any one got a gun camera photo?

Noel

[Marcus Wendel]

The discussion about Rudel and his score now has a thread of its own at viewtopic.php?f=49&t=181656

/Marcus

[AlifRafikKhan]

According to book "Panther vs T-34 Ukraine 1943 (Duel)" by Robert A. Forczyk, Oberfeldwebel Gerhard Brehme is credited with 51 kills...

Image source is the book itself

[AlifRafikKhan]

Hauptmann Friedrich Karl Nökel hat als Abteilungskommandeur in einem Panzerregiment elf sowjetische Kampfwagen vernichtet. Im Ganzen hat seine Abteilung an demselben Angriffstage u.a. 22 feindliche Panzer und 30 Pakgeschütze zur Strecke gebracht. Unser Bild zeigt Hauptmann Noekel, der vom Führer mit dem Ritterkreuz zum Eisernen Kreuz ausgezeichnet wurde, mit seiner Panzerbesatzung.

So at least he has 11 personal kills...

Source: http://mediabase1.uib.no/pls/apex/f?p=1 ... :11831,828

[AlifRafikKhan]

Another addition: Leutnant Johann Straub. At least he has 18 abschußbalken on his Geschutz, and this was before he received Ritterkreuz!

Source: Book "Achtung Panzer - Sturmgeschütz III, StuG.IV & SIG.33"