Brandenburgers

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Freikorps, Reichswehr, Austrian Bundesheer, Heer, Waffen-SS, Volkssturm and Fallschirmjäger and the other Luftwaffe ground forces. Hosted by Christoph Awender.
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dragos
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#16

Post by dragos » 07 Mar 2004, 16:57

My possibly wrong source states they were elements of the 500th SS FJ Battalion (with the name "Otto Skorzeny") that were initially stationed in Jugoslavia, at Zemun-Kraljevo.

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PanzerVI
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#17

Post by PanzerVI » 07 Mar 2004, 17:24

dragos wrote:My possibly wrong source states they were elements of the 500th SS FJ Battalion (with the name "Otto Skorzeny") that were initially stationed in Jugoslavia, at Zemun-Kraljevo.
Here you are , you said it yourself.Please see that the SS-Fallschirmjäger Battalion 500/600 was not part of the Brandenburg Division.
The unit was formed in Chlum, Czechoslovakia in October 1943 under the command of SS-Sturmbannführer Herbert Gilhofer, of SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt 21 10th SS Panzer Division "Frundsberg". Their parachute training took place at Mataruska-Banja, near Kraljevo in Serbia and at the newly relocated Luftwaffe Fallschirm-Schule nr.3 and in Hungary in early 1944.
I quote again from http://www.eliteforces.freewire.co.uk : 'In April SS-Hauptsturmführer Kurt Rybka took command of the battalion and prepared for the assault on the mountain base stronghold above the town of Drvar in western Bosnia. Their mission was to land within striking distance of the mountain citadel and either kill or capture Tito. Along with Fallschirmjäger Battalion 500, the 7th SS Gebirgs Division "Prinz Eugen" combined with Luftwaffe, Army, Brandenburg and Croatian troops as part of 2nd Panzer-Armee of Armeegruppe F were to attack the surrounding areas to support the assault'.
By the time of August '44 they were not attacking Romanian airfields but : 'In mid August along with Panzer-Brigade von Werthen and elements of 7th Panzer Div., 212th and the 252th Infantry Divisions, Fallschirmjäger Battalion 500 was involved in stabilizing the front around Raseiniai, north-west of Kaunus. By this time the battalions strength was down to 90 fit men who were then involved along with s.Pz.Jäger-Abteilung 731 in helping stop the advance of the Soviet 33rd and 11th Guards Armies' , this was near the Baltic Sea where they operated and see also their man power at that time.
Oberstab is right.The Sonderverband Brandenburg is very different from the Brandenburg division or the Waffen SS Fallschirmjäger Battalion 500/600.
If you wish to view the insignia of the Sonderverband Brandenburg and Brandenburg Division please refer to Cristoph Awender who has them on his site.
Dragos check your sources and make the corrections shown above by me and Oberstab.
P.S There was no battalion in the Brandenburg named 'Otto Skorzeny'

Bogdan


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dragos
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#18

Post by dragos » 07 Mar 2004, 19:40

There were some serious fights involved around Otopeni arifield, and not much German-Romanian cooperation. In fact, from this airfield, German aircraft were taking off to bomb Bucharest. On 28 August the Germans broke the contact and retreated towards Ploiesti, being pursued by Romanian Armored Detachment "Niculescu" and the 9th Infantry Division. At Gherghita (25 km SE Ploiesti), their retreat was blocked by elements of Romanian 6 Corps and 1900 German military surrendered (including 7 generals).

Thanks for the info.
Dragos

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PanzerVI
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#19

Post by PanzerVI » 07 Mar 2004, 20:34

Dragos that was only near the Otopeni airfield.Remember that even at that time most romanians were pro-germanistic not pro-soviet and there are many examples how they helped retreating german troops or parachuted pilots to escape the soviet captivity.The fact that some persons forced the king to expell Antonescu and sign up alongside the russians does not mean the whole people thought that way :wink:
Anyways this is not something to de discussed in a topic about Brandenburg Division so we should stick to our current issue here.
Thanks for the info about Otopeni

Best /Bogdan

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Victor
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#20

Post by Victor » 07 Mar 2004, 22:22

PanzerVI wrote: By 1200 hours, 24 August 1944, the first Brandenburger (advance) commando teams arrived via air and secured the airport. No sooner had they done that, when they were attacked by "German" marked Fieseler-Storch a/c dropping small bombs on to the Brandenburgers. The a/c had belonged to the Luftwaffe just days before, but now they belonged to the anti-German Romanians.
I highly doubt that, since there was no report of Romanian pilots using Fi-156s to bomb Otopeni. Why would such an aircraft, which was far from being suited for the task, be used. It could not carry and launch bombs.

PS: I also find the notions "pro-German" and "pro-Soviet" Romanians as wrong. There was generaly only one kind: Romanians. There was no civil war, no fights between "pro-German" and "pro-Soviet" Romanians.

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PanzerVI
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#21

Post by PanzerVI » 08 Mar 2004, 01:22

Check the order or battle here and also the campaigns of this division
Perhaps it may be wrong and outdated.If you have sources which clearly counteridicate it would be great as many internet information is sometimes wrong.

http://www.eliteforces.freewire.co.uk/B ... harest.htm

Pro-soviet romanians weren't a lot , trust me,and I did not reffer to fights between pro-german romanians and pro-soviet ones.Even now old folks tell stories depicting the retreating german soldiers WITHOUT RAPING PLUNDERING , LOOTING, etc like the soviet army.Countless stories exist at least in my region (Ardeal) of romanians helping germans.Perhaps it was just the case of this region which had predominant pro-germanistic inhabitants (also see the struggles near Oradea , Salonta , Cluj).
Anyhow this has no concern with the topic we are posting on at the current moment.It's about the Brandenburg Division :wink:

Regards , Bogdan

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#22

Post by 1jasonoz » 06 Apr 2004, 13:37

What has always got me wondering about the German special forces; why didn't the Germans ever use them in raids against the British isles, just like the British did against the Germans with their commandos?

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#23

Post by Andreas » 06 Apr 2004, 13:41

PanzerVI wrote:Even now old folks tell stories depicting the retreating german soldiers WITHOUT RAPING PLUNDERING , LOOTING, etc like the soviet army.
That was probably because they did not have time to go through any scorched earth actions - the German collapse was total, in a short space of time most of AG South Ukraine had disappeared.

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#24

Post by Andreas » 06 Apr 2004, 13:44

1jasonoz wrote:What has always got me wondering about the German special forces; why didn't the Germans ever use them in raids against the British isles, just like the British did against the Germans with their commandos?
Just guessing, but it may have had something to do with a lack of support infrastructure, such as existed in the occupied countries? If a Commando raid went wrong, they could try to make their way out using local resistance networks. No such option existed for Germans in Britain.

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#25

Post by General » 06 Apr 2004, 19:18

de-gouden-ridder wrote:They took part at the "invasion" of Eben-Emael. It was the best Belgian fort and was "ontakeble". 55 German soldiers took over the 700-man-fort. :D
Take a look at (a bit boring site :| ) http://www.fort-eben-emael.be/
The German Fallschirmjaeger did the main attack. What was the involvement of the Brandenburgers in this attack? I couldn't find something about their involvment in Franz Kurowski's book The Brandenburgers or James Lucas' book Kommando.

Since a few days this website about German elite forces is down. :(


Yesterday I was searching on the web about the Brandenburgers. On http://www.worldhistory.com I found this:
After the war, British commandos recruited a number of ex-Brandenburgers with good command of English. When their service ended, many immigrated to African countries. Others joined the French Foreign Legion.
See: http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/B/Bran ... giment.htm
This is the first time I heard this story and I think it's not true. Maybe a few joined the French Legion.

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#26

Post by General » 28 Apr 2004, 21:19

General wrote:
de-gouden-ridder wrote:They took part at the "invasion" of Eben-Emael. It was the best Belgian fort and was "ontakeble". 55 German soldiers took over the 700-man-fort. :D
Take a look at (a bit boring site :| ) http://www.fort-eben-emael.be/
The German Fallschirmjaeger did the main attack. What was the involvement of the Brandenburgers in this attack? I couldn't find something about their involvment in Franz Kurowski's book The Brandenburgers or James Lucas' book Kommando.
The Abwehr unit which was involved in this attack was Battaillon zur besondern Verwendung 100 (100th Special Purpose Battalion). This unit was under command of Hptm. Fleck of the Oppeln Abwehr station, but was NOT a Brandenburg unit. Fleck formed this unit from the 550 Abwehr men of the Oppeln station and other volunteers. The unit was part of the 6th Army commanded by Reichenau.
Sources:
- The Brandenburgers by Franz Kurowski
- Official Eben Emael website: http://www.fort-eben-mael.be/English/Fr ... _plans.htm

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#27

Post by fredleander » 07 Nov 2005, 21:31

de-gouden-ridder wrote:They took part at the "invasion" of Eben-Emael. It was the best Belgian fort and was "ontakeble". 55 German soldiers took over the 700-man-fort.
My impression is that Eben Emael was captured by "regular" FJ glider-borne troops. The planned contingent was approx. 90 men but two gliders broke their towing lines during the approach so that the assault force was lessened by approx. 16 men. Among these were their CO. He joined up with them later during the day.

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Re: Brandenburgers

#28

Post by tigre » 22 Feb 2015, 20:55

Hello to all :D; more follows..................

Unternehmen »Bogdanow«.

In the area of ​​action of the LVII AK (Mot) was employed the Fallschirmzug Lütke (paratroopers Pl) of the Lehr und Bau Regiment zbV 800 "Brandenburg", which carried out the Operation "Bogdanow", capturing intact an important bridge over the river Holszanka on the double track railway line Lida-Molodechno. The action took place on June 25, 1941 and the German paratroopers fulfilled their mission despite of in the area were 16 soviet armored vehicles and an infantry company. Following the fighting, four Germans (including Leutnant Lütke) were KIA and 16 were WIA.

Here my doubts, although the date of death of Lütke specified June 25, 1941 in a photo I found on the web stated June 26, 1941 on the grave; second: which Soviet troops were defending the bridge? (AFAIK it would be the Recce detachment of the Soviet 24 Rifle Div, Is that right?) Thanks.

Sources: http://vif2ne.ru/rkka/forum/arhprint/72710
http://www.mapywig.org/m/WIG_maps/serie ... 300dpi.jpg
Brandenburger an der Ostfront http://www.nexusboard.net/forumdisplay. ... umid=55826 (off-line).

It's all folks. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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Tomb of German paratroopers fallen on June 26, 1941 (in the center Ltn Lütke.); were the Brandenburgers of Fallschirmzug Lütke? .....................
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The area..........................
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The objective...........................
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Griffin brigade
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Re: Brandenburgers

#29

Post by Griffin brigade » 17 Mar 2015, 21:41

Anyone have any info on the Assault by the Brandenburgers on the Soviet Gun Batteries on the eastern side of the Estonian Island of Saaremaa during the Beowulf Operations in 1941 ?

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