Axis History Forum

This is an apolitical forum for discussions on the Axis nations and related topics hosted by Marcus Wendel's Axis History Factbook in cooperation with Michael Miller's Axis Biographical Research, Christoph Awender's WW2 day by dayand Christian Ankerstjerne’s Panzerworld.

Skip to content

If you found the forum useful please consider supporting us. You can also support us by buying books through the AHF Bookstore.

About "disguised German" during Battle of Bulge...

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Freikorps, Reichswehr, Austrian Bundesheer, Heer, Waffen-SS and Volkssturm.
Hosted by Christoph Awender.

About "disguised German" during Battle of Bulge...

Postby Shc on 23 Apr 2005 17:51

Hello!

As we all know, many Germans disguised themselves as an American during the Battle of the Bulge of '44 in which it caused great paranoia among the US ranks..

Anyway, I was just wondering how many of these "disguised German commandos" were discovered and captured by the Americans? What were their punishements?
How many Germans actually disguised themselves?
and how many half-tracks/tanks were disguised into American vehicles?

Thanks for the replies!!
It's just a question out of curiosity... :)
Last edited by Shc on 14 May 2005 03:05, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Shc
Member
Canada
 
Posts: 841
Joined: 12 Sep 2004 01:35
Location: Montreal (Canada)

Postby Caesar on 23 Apr 2005 19:12

Skorzeny had 2 Sherman tanks n Thelve Panthers who where disquised as Shermans.
In total he sended out 10 teams of 4 men.
User avatar
Caesar
Member
Belgium
 
Posts: 102
Joined: 09 Aug 2004 20:19
Location: Belguim

Postby Gertjan on 24 Apr 2005 11:57

If the Allies found German soldiers in Allied (mainly US) uniforms, they were treated as spies and executed .

The main unit was 150 panzerbrigade, divided into three kampfgruppen:
Kampfgruppe X, Cdr: SS-Obersturmbannfuhrer Willi Hardieck,
Kampfgruppe Y, Cdr: hauptmann Scherff,
Kampfgruppe Z, Cdr: Oberstleutnant Wolff.

For "einheit Stielau" there were 10 reconnaissance commandos and two demolition commandos. In total 44 people. According to Skorzeny 36 of them returned to their own lines. They contained the best English speaking persons.

The troops were divided in four categories for their knowledge of American English:
1: speaking perfectly and some knowledge of slang (10)
2: speaking perfectly but no slang (30-40)
3: speaking fairly well (120-150)
4: school english (200)

The numbers between brackets are the number of people in that category. (Osprey elite 11: Ardennes 1944 Peiper & Skorzeny)
User avatar
Gertjan
Member
Netherlands
 
Posts: 369
Joined: 01 Dec 2002 21:07
Location: Wageningen, netherlands

Postby Michael Emrys on 01 May 2005 05:40

Caesar wrote:Skorzeny had 2 Sherman tanks n Thelve Panthers who where disquised as Shermans.


The Panthers were disguised as M10 Tank Destroyers.
User avatar
Michael Emrys
Member
United States
 
Posts: 5986
Joined: 13 Jan 2005 18:44
Location: USA

Postby redcoat on 01 May 2005 19:39

Grease_Spot wrote:
The Panthers were disguised as M10 Tank Destroyers.

here's a photo ;)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
redcoat
Member
United Kingdom
 
Posts: 1249
Joined: 03 Mar 2003 21:54
Location: Stockport, England

Postby redcoat on 01 May 2005 19:43

According to Max Hastings in his book 'Armageddon, the battle for Germany 1944-45', the American forces executed 13 Germans for wearing US uniforms.
User avatar
redcoat
Member
United Kingdom
 
Posts: 1249
Joined: 03 Mar 2003 21:54
Location: Stockport, England

Gremans in US uniforms

Postby pdhinkle on 22 May 2005 00:43

Gertjan has the closest numbers. The US first estimated about 200 troops with Gtto S

An aside to this story, In the first days of the bulge a US officer was taking the unit mail back to a postal unit when he was stopped by a German GI unit. Seeing what was up He declared the US Mail Must go through " Got back in jeep and drove on. Unchallenged by the Germ,ans
pdhinkle
Member
United States
 
Posts: 17
Joined: 02 Jan 2004 01:54
Location: waynesbooro, Pa. USA

Postby Andy H on 22 May 2005 18:14

redcoat wrote:According to Max Hastings in his book 'Armageddon, the battle for Germany 1944-45', the American forces executed 13 Germans for wearing US uniforms.


In JP Pallud's Battle of the Bulge:Then and Now, he also has 13 as the given number:-
7 were executed after being caught near Malmedy and executed at Henri-Chapelle on December 30th
3 were executed (pictures shown in said publication) at Henri-Chapelle December 23rd
2 were executed at Henri-Chapelle on December 26th
1 was executed at Henri Chapelle on January 13th 1945

However he states that this was the total figure from Henri-Chapelle who were positively ID as being part of PzBrig150, the actual figures may well have been higher.

The wall with the bullet holes still remain. It seems poignant that it still stands with houses around and yet I doubt that many know of the events that transpired there some 60odd yrs ago

Regards

Andy H
User avatar
Andy H
Forum Staff
United Kingdom
 
Posts: 13453
Joined: 12 Mar 2002 20:51
Location: UK and USA

Postby zipper_mx5 on 06 Jun 2005 21:46

Hi!
The photo of execution (looks like it is a real photo...but I don't speak Nederland's nor Flandern's language... actually I don't even understand which is which :P ) of three german men from PzBrig.150 behind american barracks in Henri-Chapelle...

Image

The whole site could be interesting..if somebody is confident with the two cited languages..


Here
http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ ... 001718;p=1
we have another interesting site, giving us more info (correct AFAIK) about the materials and vehicles involved.

S!

zipper
zipper_mx5
Member
Italy
 
Posts: 56
Joined: 20 Aug 2004 12:48
Location: Florence, Italy

Postby Panzermahn on 07 Jun 2005 05:23

I remember seeing the movie Battle of the Bulge long time ago (I think that's the movie, please correct me if i am wrong);

An american unit pass thru a small bridge where a group of American MPs were doing some engineering work. The MP who spoke excellent American English asked the Americans where they are going and then allowed them to proceed. Halfway going, one of the Americans ask the his friend that whether there is something strange about those MPs. One American answered, "those are not engineers! Those are MPs"

Also another scene from the movie Hart's War (starring Bruce WIlis and Colin Farrell)

Lieutenant Thomas Hart was driving his Captain to St. Vith when they came across a MP outpost manned by two American MPs. The MPs asked them where they were going and Hart answered that they are going to St. Vith. The MP said that they are going in the wrong direction while Hart shows them the map. But the Captain, who saw something at the outpost, knew something was wrong and was unholstering his 9mm when he was shot in the head but another MP.
Panzermahn
Member
Malaysia
 
Posts: 3453
Joined: 13 Jul 2002 03:51
Location: Malaysia

Postby Michael Emrys on 07 Jun 2005 05:44

zipper_mx5 wrote:Hi!
The photo of execution (looks like it is a real photo...but I don't speak Nederland's nor Flandern's language... actually I don't even understand which is which :P ) of three german men from PzBrig.150 behind american barracks in Henri-Chapelle...

Image


I recognize two of the men in that photo. The one on the right and the one in the middle were photographed indendently as they were being tied to the posts and those photos ran in World War II magazine a few months back.
User avatar
Michael Emrys
Member
United States
 
Posts: 5986
Joined: 13 Jan 2005 18:44
Location: USA

Postby Juha Hujanen on 07 Jun 2005 16:16

The German soldiers are from left:

Gefreiter Wilhelm Schmidt
Oberfähnrich Günter Billing
Unteroffizier Manfred Pernass

And as Andy said,Pallud's book describes the execution in details.

/Juha
User avatar
Juha Hujanen
Financial supporter
Finland
 
Posts: 1910
Joined: 20 Mar 2002 11:32
Location: Suur-Savo,Finland

Postby deadly88mm on 08 Jun 2005 05:10

Panzermahn 'Battle of the Bulge' isnt the best of movies so i doubt that its very accurate... (With American Tanks being called king tigers) But you wernt mistakin in your understanding of any of the movies. But in Hearts war the man was reaching for his 1911 as i recall then the driver hit the gas and came underfire from a hiden mg 42 trooper...
I wounder did these MPs have MG-42 support on there posts?
User avatar
deadly88mm
Member
United States
 
Posts: 33
Joined: 07 Jan 2005 01:49
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Postby Panzermahn on 08 Jun 2005 09:28

deadly88mm wrote:Panzermahn 'Battle of the Bulge' isnt the best of movies so i doubt that its very accurate... (With American Tanks being called king tigers) But you wernt mistakin in your understanding of any of the movies. But in Hearts war the man was reaching for his 1911 as i recall then the driver hit the gas and came underfire from a hiden mg 42 trooper...
I wounder did these MPs have MG-42 support on there posts?


hi,

Yes, the Battle of the Bulge and Hart's War are just movies..But i think the portrayal of those English-speaking disguised Germans came close to the graphical representation of what really happened the German commando infiltration during the Ardennes Offensive

Just my 2 cents
Panzermahn
Member
Malaysia
 
Posts: 3453
Joined: 13 Jul 2002 03:51
Location: Malaysia

Postby deadly88mm on 08 Jun 2005 14:30

Yes i fullly understand and ment no offense. I was actually suprised that 'Battle of the Bulge' had that represented in it, because i have seen several horable war movies from that same time period. Also the sherman's turret geting blown of and no one died was rather funny to me.
User avatar
deadly88mm
Member
United States
 
Posts: 33
Joined: 07 Jan 2005 01:49
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Next

Return to Heer, Reichswehr & Waffen-SS

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 1 guest