info on 27th (Penal) Panzer Regiment

[Porta&Barcelona]

About the tank types and so, I can't argue in the discussion, because I don't have the technical bagage and so....

I have a couple of thoughts:

Here's been said that the 27th Penal didn't exist. But I've read in at least one book of Hassel, that the were called the 27 zBv, and that they would operate also as the 27th because the German general staff would let look the Wehrmacht bigger by using the regiment numbers twice.

I have also the notice that the Germans in WW2 were expert in destroying documents if they were not good for their reputation. I discovered when I first started to search after the 27th that they were a part of the 19th panzer division, but on Hassels site you can read that he said the were a part of the 6th division. That's when I frowned my eyebrowns. But if we suppose here again that there were no documents about this Penal Regiment because nobody had to know that Germans used their prisoners as soldiers. Several times you can read in the books that they never tell anybody about the prison, the uses and that they were forced to fight. That's why maybe the pictures aren't right. With the pics he could make promotion for his books, allthough he knew that no documents or pictures existed of the 27th
It was also the meaning of the highest authoroties that the soldiers of the Penal Regiments should die in battle, because the were the first to attack and the last ones to pull back. Perhaps that's why nothing can be found in the German archives. Several times in the books you can read that while the rest of the regular regiments were pulling back, they left Hassel and his friends to their own.

I've read hear different opinions, mine is that Hassel experienced the War, and that those parts in his book are real, and parts that are told by a friend or someone else can be fiction. Those stories are created by the imagination of the person.
And that Hassel didn't wrote all his books by himself can be true. You can read on his site that after the first book he would not continue writing, but his wife insisted to continue. I noticed it also that some books were written by the view of someone else.
That some facts don't match with historical facts can be declared by the fact that Hassel spend more than 4 years in prisoner camps. In that time you can't remember all of your memories. So than it's easy to add imagination with memories.

About the fact that before was said here that it doesn't match that Hassel fought in 27th Penal and somewhere else you can read that he was in the 11th or something. He started in the 11th and after he was deserted he came in prison. After a time they gave him the choice: prison or penal regiment.

I don't say I have it right, but that's my opinion.
Sorry for my bad language, it's about ten years I had English class :roll:

[Jan-Hendrik]

Fairy tales, not more. Go conform with the Petterson/Porsch-BS...

Jan-Hendrik

[panzer-lewis]

Even though they are Not real but based on Hassels experiences,they are great reads.

[narwan]

Having read most of his novels and having a couple myself I can only come to the conclusion that these are NOT the result of his experiences but of someones imagination, likely spurred on by the real experiences of others and fueled by popular stroies and myths of the war. There are simply too many 'stupid' things in the books that are told as fact.
The books make for some amusing pulp-type ww2 reading but imo have no historical value, including no basis in real experiences by the author.

[new2this]

I read my first Sven Hassel novel when I was about 12 (Beast Regiment AKA: Monte Cassino) and I loved it. Since then, I've read and heard all the conjecture and back-and-forthing over whether he's all he's cracked up to be. My opinion is...who cares? The book was well-written, and very entertaining. As a fiction book, does anything else really matter?

[Piet Duits]

As a fiction book, no. As books which claim to be accurate, yes.
Else, these useless discussions about wether or not the books are based on real events with the 27. Panzer-Regiment wouldn't take place.
Indeed, I loved to read them too when I was a teenager. And yes, I also believed they were true. Until I became old enough to research things and found out they couldn't be true.

Piet

Merry Christmas everybody!

[new2this]

I see your point, and I promise not to break out any Sven Hassel novels, when WWII historical referrences are needed. I still like to read them, though. Beast Regiment is my favorite, of those I've read. There's something about the author's style, figures of speech, sentence structure, the way he swears, or something, which makes it downright hilarious in most cases. (ie: American = punch him in the face, Sven = land him one on the napper)

One thing I have noticed is that the first book I read (Beast Regiment) and the last book I read (Gestapo) seem to have very different writing styles. Some of the contents are the same, but the Beast Regiment seemed to have been written with European flair, and used German titles, rank, and abbreviations, where Gestapo seemed to have been written more for an American audience, as the majority of the titles were the English equivalent of the German ranks. Slang and swear words between the two differed greatly too. I'm not sure if this was a difference in author or translator, however.

[AOldDog]

You guys confuse a fan site with facts. About the 27th Panzer Regiment (6th Panzer Division) , Hassel was in the sonder abtailungs unit. every army had them in that period. In my country [Romania] we had them until the revolution against the communist regime in 1989. They are expendable units of prisoners that do "unwanted work". That usually mean digging latrines, ... and other such work. In a war case scenario i think they use them for removing land mines or cleaning a dangerous territory.
More FACTS, and info about Sven you can see at :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sven_Hassel

[Jan-Hendrik]

Hello? Is simple a fictional career, a novel

Jan-Hendrik

[AOldDog]

Apart of the GREAT novel's , i wanted to clear Sven's name a bit. Because i found this on the net, and if i found it probably other poor soul will too, and maybe that poor soul will have a bad impression about Sven, that he is an impostor or something witch is not. Anyone who served his country as a soldier, knows what Sven is about ... When one is under arms hears a lot of story's. Sven first goal was not to let those tales be forgotten, and i respect him for that.

[toastman]

I read some of Sven Hassel's books and basically Sven joined the German Army but after certain events he deserted and was sentenced to re education. After that he was "pardoned " and was sent to a penal battalion where he was trained and "graduated". After his new training he was assigned to a regiment which happens to be a tank regiment. From my memory the 27th was not called a penal Panzer-Regiment. The 2nd section was mostly made up from penal soldiers but that does not mean he was a liar. The man should be respected but that is just my opinion. He was never SS or a famous hero, he was just a basic "swine that did not deserve to live" -Hauptmann Meier adressing his men. Please feel free to correct me

[Sheldrake]

Google Sven Hassel to find that he is the subject of some controversy. He claimed to have served in ther German army. Others claim he was a collaborator in Denmark who picked up his stories from WW2 SS veterans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sven_Hassel

His history has little more relaity than "Autumn Mist" the Dr Whop novel.

It is not unknown for people to pass themselves off as veterans. Sven Hassel is closer to the Walter Mitty tales than documented history http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Walts

[Christoph Awender]

Hello Toastman,

After your first post let me tell you that we usually base our discussions on facts.
Your sentence " From my memory the 27th was not called a penal Panzer-Regiment. The 2nd section was mostly made up from penal soldiers but that does not mean he was a liar." shows that you do not check facts before posting. What do you mean with the "2nd section was mostly made up from penal soldiers"... please show us proof for that.
PS: I guess you mean the 2nd company!?

/Christoph

[Tucobenedito]

I read somewhere that a Danish journalist had been sued by Sven Hassel. If I remember correctly, he produced documents in court that proved he had served in the Whermacht. I also believe that he served prison time in Denmark for treason. He supposedly wrote his first book Legion of the Damned while in prison. Of all his books this is the book that seems real.
SPOILER ALERT, SPOILER ALERT, all the main characters die at the end in this book. I gave my father in law the book SS GENERAL (he served in Korea as a US marine) to read and he said the description of combat was pretty good and probably written by someone who had been in combat. In the book Reign of Hell, Hassels claims to be with Regiment 999, which as I understand it, was a penal battalion, Hassel claims 999 was chosen for criminals because it's the Police/ Emergency number in Britain. Read them, enjoy them but don't believe them.. Any info about the man would be greatly appreciated.
Link to Sven Hassel obituary in Uk newspaper
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obitu ... 17043.html
Regards Rich

[Tucobenedito]

I read somewhere that a Danish journalist had been sued by Sven Hassel. If I remember correctly, he produced documents in court that proved he had served in the Whermacht. I also believe that he served prison time in Denmark for treason. He supposedly wrote his first book Legion of the Damned while in prison. Of all his books this is the book that seems real.
SPOILER ALERT, SPOILER ALERT, all the main characters die at the end in this book. I gave my father in law the book SS GENERAL (he served in Korea as a US marine) to read and he said the description of combat was pretty good and probably written by someone who had been in combat. In the book Reign of Hell, Hassels claims to be with Regiment 999, which as I understand it, was a penal battalion, Hassel claims 999 was chosen for criminals because it's the Police/ Emergency number in Britain. Read them, enjoy them but don't believe them. Another thing to bear in mind is translation, use of different translators would, I think, further complicate things.Any info about the man would be greatly appreciated.
Link to Sven Hassel obituary in Uk newspaper
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obitu ... 17043.html
Regards Rich