Kampfgruppe Mohnke, SS-Division "Hitlerjugend"

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Reader3000
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Kampfgruppe Mohnke, SS-Division "Hitlerjugend"

#1

Post by Reader3000 » 04 Oct 2005, 17:04

Hello all. Did Kampfgruppe Mohnke of SS-Division "Hitlerjugend" ever fight toghether with parts of Waldmüller's I./25? And if so, when and where was that? Could it be possible that Mohnke and Waldmüller thus had a briefing toghether?

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#2

Post by Reader3000 » 23 Dec 2006, 19:15

Hello guys. In the meantime I'm quite sure that the "Kampfgruppe Mohnke" also consisted of I./SS-PzGrenRgt. 25 of SS-Sturmbannführer Waldmüller.

I think we can see him here with Mohnke, discussing the situation or a battle plan.
Image (source: DeLaglio's website)

I doubt that the man is Olboeter. But we had this discussion before, I think. What do you think?


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Re: Kampfgruppe Mohnke, SS-Division "Hitlerjugend"

#3

Post by AlifRafikKhan » 03 Oct 2014, 19:14

Mohnke wearing Italian camo jacket Telo Mimetico M29

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Re: Kampfgruppe Mohnke, SS-Division "Hitlerjugend"

#4

Post by seaburn » 15 Oct 2014, 22:02

Looking for some help on Mohnke - he is pictured above in camo - Does anyone know if this is what he exclusively wore during the first two weeks of the DD landing - or is there another picture of him in 'dress uniform' ? If he was to wear a grey coat - what colour would the shoulder boards have been ? Would there have been a number of gold pips on these shoulder boards? Would he have also worn a grey/black peaked cap with this coat ? There is a description of an unknown officer dressed like that who is suspected of being Mohnke from the 8th of June. All replies appreciated.

C

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Re: Kampfgruppe Mohnke, SS-Division "Hitlerjugend"

#5

Post by seaburn » 16 Oct 2014, 18:39

As there has sadly been no reply up to now from experts in this area, I've resorted to searching the net and come up with this which hopefully is accurate for the shoulder boards part of the question as to Mohnke's rank at that time.
rank2.png
rank2.png (35.47 KiB) Viewed 2277 times
What insignia of rank if any would he wear on a camo uniform ?

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Re: Kampfgruppe Mohnke, HJ-Division

#6

Post by rossmcpharter » 24 Oct 2014, 21:26

He would wear the bottom right green insignia on your image. You can see it on both his upper arms of his Italian camo jacket in the photo above.

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Re: Kampfgruppe Mohnke, SS-Division "Hitlerjugend"

#7

Post by seaburn » 25 Oct 2014, 01:05

Tks for reply 'RMP',much appreciated. My questions are all in relation to Canadian POW's descriptions of Officers and troops who captured them in Normandy. None of the POWs mentioned these insignia markings on the sleeves of camo uniforms, it was all about the lapels/collar tabs.

I don't see anything on Mohnke's lapels here although there is testimony that some of the men who picked up the POWs and were wearing camo had the SS insignia on their lapels, these would have been lower ranked troops of course. I have since been sent pictures to show examples of these by PM, but was there a 'rule' as to which unit or rank had SS insignia on their camo lapels or was it 'hit and miss' with no definitive rules? Did Officers over a certain level not wear them ? I have seen posts about SS Officers having their camo jackets specially tailored but I presume this wouldn't preclude them from putting Insignia of rank etc on these garments.

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Re: Kampfgruppe Mohnke, SS-Division "Hitlerjugend"

#8

Post by rossmcpharter » 26 Oct 2014, 10:17

Until 'peadot' camo jackets and trousers came out later in the war. Senior officers tended to wear tailored converted camo clothing, as in the above photo. The rank and file tended to wear smocks or overalls, which were more ill fitting and normally worn over their regulation jackets, so often their collar tabs would have been visible at the top of their collarless smocks.

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Re: Kampfgruppe Mohnke, SS-Division "Hitlerjugend"

#9

Post by seaburn » 26 Oct 2014, 10:56

Thanks again 'RMP' that makes a lot of sense and is very helpful. The situation I'm looking at involves Canadian's being captured by troops in camo. There is some confusion with the captives as to who captured them, some say they saw the SS insignia on the collar tabs but I need to verify this as that insignia became so notorious that it is possible the men recounting their ordeal are adding details because of a perception rather than fact. Throw into the mix that some of the men think they were initially captured by Paratroopers and pinning the units of these men gets more complicated.

There are descriptions of 'loose jackets' or 'coveralls' which fits your assertion of the camo just covering their normal jackets and in this case, there would be validity in someone seeing SS collar tabs on these troops.

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Re: Kampfgruppe Mohnke, SS-Division "Hitlerjugend"

#10

Post by sandeepmukherjee196 » 07 Nov 2014, 09:15

Hi members..
is it a fact that since his severe foot injury in yugoslavia, Mohnke was in constant pain, on medication, and had often been very temperamental and almost lost his balance?
Ciao
sandeep
Last edited by Dieter Zinke on 07 Nov 2014, 12:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kampfgruppe Mohnke, SS-Division "Hitlerjugend"

#11

Post by seaburn » 07 Nov 2014, 17:02

I've put this map up in the Holocaust/war crimes Forum, but I'm hoping that those who hover more in this section might see it here and give an opinion. It's in relation to the 'area's of operation' of Mohnke's 26th and Meyer's 25th Regiments. Kurt Meyer gave the location for his area of operation on June 8th/9th '44 in his interrogation. The demarcation line between Mohnke's right flank and Meyer's left flank is shown here on this map.

Keeping in mind how tied up he was with his own Regiment at that time, would it be likely that Meyer would travel into the middle of the zone covered by the 26th Regiment and while there he would issue orders to men of the 26th Regiment with regard to the treatment of POWs ? It is a matter of record that Mohnke was in the area at this time but as yet there is no evidence that Kurt Meyer was. I'm be interested to hear the views of those who have studied the 12. SS-Division "Hitlerjugend"or this time and area in general. What do you think are the probabilities of him doing this?

btln map 8.6.44.jpg

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Re: Kampfgruppe Mohnke, SS-Division "Hitlerjugend"

#12

Post by rossmcpharter » 07 Nov 2014, 19:11

sandeepmukherjee196 wrote:Hi members..
is it a fact that since his severe foot injury in yugoslavia, Mohnke was in constant pain, on medication, and had often been very temperamental and almost lost his balance?
Ciao
sandeep
I think he'd actually had part of his foot amputated as well, due to the air attack, so his balance wouldn't be good. But I'm sure his bad temper, pain and morphine medication are mentioned in books like 'Hitlers Last General' by Ian Sayer and Douglas Botting

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Re: Kampfgruppe Mohnke, SS-Division "Hitlerjugend"

#13

Post by Germanicus » 10 Dec 2014, 16:41

Dear seaburn these links may assist with your inquiry in relation to Kampfgruppe Mohnke, HJ-Division.
http://www.ww2f.com/topic/50216-civilia ... um-dec-44/
http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewtopic.php?p=136874
http://digitool.library.mcgill.ca/webcl ... 998280~331
http://ostfront.forumpro.fr/t3038-12-ss ... end-5-2014
http://www.waffen-ss.no/mohnke.htm
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/g ... -138476211
The above links may assist with your inquiry in relation to Kampfgruppe Mohnke, SS-Division "Hitlerjugend"
Most respectfully
Mark
Last edited by Germanicus on 10 Dec 2014, 16:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kampfgruppe Mohnke, SS-Division "Hitlerjugend"

#14

Post by Germanicus » 10 Dec 2014, 16:47

tumblr_mc8twaSk911r90hjko1_1280.jpg
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Dear Seaburn,
you mite just find the above photograph of interest.
Group photo of officers of the 12. SS-Panzerdivision "Hitlerjugend", at the birthday celebration laid on by his brother officers for the Divisional commander, Fritz Witt, Tillieres-sur-Arne, Normandy, 27 May, 1944. Facing Witt at centre front is SS-Standartenführer Kurt ("Panzer") Meyer, Witt's effective Number Two and successor as Divisional commander. Between Witt and Meyer (in Panzer Black) is SS-Obersturmbannführer Max Wunsche, commander of the Division's Panzer Regiment; behind Meyer is SS-Sturmbannführer Heinrich Springer, Divisional Adjutant. Behind Witt, looking straight at camera, is SS-Obersturmbannführer Wilhelm Mohnke, commander of SS-Panzergrenadier-Regiment 26, and destined to be "Hitler's Last General" (or at least "fighting general) amidst the ruins of Berlin a year later. These officers were all distinguished veterans of 1. SS-Panzer-Division "Leibstandarte-SS Adolf Hitler", of which "Hitlerjugend" was a "child division". All survived the war apart from Fritz Witt himself, who was fatally wounded.
The following are the SS Officers in this photo ...!!! You did ask did Mohnke and Waldmuller meet...
http://www.ww2incolor.com/german/office ... ision.html
SS-Stubaf. Schürer(Ordonnanzoffizier), SS-Stubaf. Heinrich Springer(Adjutant), SS-Staf. Kurt Meyer (SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. 25), SS-Oberf. Fritz Witt (Div.Kdr.), SS-Ostubaf. Wilhelm Mohnke (SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. 26), SS-Ostubaf. Fritz Schröder (SS-Pz.Art.Rgt. 12), SS-Hstuf. Rothemund (IIa).
SS-Hstuf. Gerd v. Reitzenstein (5./SS-Pz.Aufkl.Abt. 12), SS-Stubaf. Artur Manthey (SS-Inst.Abt. 12), Erich Pandel (SS-Na.Abt. 12), SS-Ostubaf. Max Wünsche (SS-Pz.Rgt. 12), SS-Hstuf. Hubert Meyer (Ia), SS-Stubaf. Fritz Buchsein (IIa), SS-Hstuf. Albert Schuch (Div.HQ).
Hermann Weiser (Korps-Adjutant), SS-Stubaf. Bernhard Krause(I./SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. 12), SS-Stubaf. Gerhard Bremer (SS-Pz.Aufkl.Abt. 12), SS-Stubaf. Siegfried Müller (SS-Pz.Pi.Abt 12), SS-Stubaf. Bernhard Siebken (II./SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. 26), SS-Stubaf. Jakob Hanreich (SS-Pz.Jg.Abt. 12), SS-Ostuf. Ritzert(15./SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. 25).
SS-Hstuf. Georg Urabl (SS-Felders.Btl. 12), SS-Stubaf. Dr. Kos (IVa), SS-Stubaf. Hans Waldmüller (I./SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. 12), SS-Stubaf. Rolf Kolitz (SS-Div.Nachsch.Tr. 12).
SS-Stubaf. Erich Urbanitz (Kdr.I./SS-Pz.Art.Rgt.12), SS-Stubaf. Karl-Heinz Prinz (Kdr.II./SS-Pz.Rgt. 12), SS-Stubaf. Karl Bartling(Kdr.III./SS-Pz.Art.Rgt.12), SS-Hstuf.Georg Urabl (SS-Felders.Btl. 12), SS-Stubaf. Dr. Kos (IVa), SS-Stubaf. Hans Waldmüller (I./SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. 12), SS-Stubaf. Rolf Kolitz (SS-Div.Nachsch.Tr. 12).

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Re: Kampfgruppe Mohnke, HJ-Division

#15

Post by Germanicus » 10 Dec 2014, 17:13

On page 130 of The 12th SS: The History of the Hitler Youth Panzer Division By Hubert Meyer

The following is clearly stated
Mohnke.jpg
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