Diference between a cossack and northcaucasian

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Arto O
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Diference between a cossack and northcaucasian

#1

Post by Arto O » 20 Apr 2015, 04:53

Hi,
A question that I have had a long time in the mind. What was a difference between a cossack and a northcaucasian (Bergkaukasien) or caucasian volunteer? AFAK cossacks and georgians were christian faith, meanwhile northcaucasian (chechens, ossets, kabardians etc) were muslims. Cossacks came from Don, Kuban, Terek, Siberia etc. Both wore similar kind of fur cap; cossacks mostly wearing some kind of insignia on it, meanwhile northcaucasians not. To make it more complicated georgian volunteer used very similar dress than cossacks, with cartridges on the chest and the kindjal dagger, but noway they were cossacks. Just looking a photo, without seeing any national shield/insignia, is it possible to see from where the volunteer came from? A cossack, a caucasian or georgian.
Thanks
Arto
Cossacks or not cossacks:
Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1975-099-15A,_Russland,_Kosaken_in_der_Wehrmacht.jpg

GregSingh
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Re: Diference between a cossack and northcaucasian

#2

Post by GregSingh » 20 Apr 2015, 09:18

Just looking a photo, without seeing any national shield/insignia, is it possible to see from where the volunteer came from? A cossack, a caucasian or georgian.
It's always going to be a guess to some extent as you belong to one group or another mostly by birth, not by how you dress.
You would expect a Cossack to have a cherkesska, beshmet and a fleece hat. But is it always a case? Does it mean the others can't have it? No.

Now your photo. Although it's from Bundesarchiv and they are labelled as Cossacks, I have my doubts.
You probably noticed that too - if what I see on the left banner is a crescent with a large star (or several smaller stars) - odds of them being Cossacks are coming down...


Art
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Re: Diference between a cossack and northcaucasian

#3

Post by Art » 20 Apr 2015, 12:11

Arto O wrote:Cossacks came from Don, Kuban, Terek, Siberia etc. Both wore similar kind of fur cap; cossacks mostly wearing some kind of insignia on it, meanwhile northcaucasians not.
Both cherkesska and Kuban cap were elements of Caucasian native dress borrowed by Kuban and Terek cossacks. Other cossacks uniform looked completely different:
Image

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Diference between a cossack and northcaucasian

#4

Post by Sid Guttridge » 20 Apr 2015, 12:43

As I understand it, the Cossacks were essentially Slavs, with some other elements added. The North Caucasians were non-Slavs.

Hugh Seaton-Watson wrote an article on their history. If I recall correctly, he reckoned they were in serious decline by WWII and a lot of non-Cossacks with similar life styles were being included under the umbrella term "Cossack".

Certainly the supposed "Cossack" units in Eastern Ukraine have performed poorly in the recent fighting. They seem to be largely uniforms and posturing nowadays.

Cheers,

Sid.

Arto O
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Re: Diference between a cossack and northcaucasian

#5

Post by Arto O » 23 Apr 2015, 20:30

Thanks GregSingh, Art and Sid,
for your information. Art wrote:Both cherkesska and Kuban cap were elements of Caucasian native dress borrowed by Kuban and Terek cossacks. Other cossacks uniform looked completely different:
Very interesting. I never thought on that. I started to observe different photos, but it is hard to say nothing as in cherkesska wasn´t worn any national shield. Observing some drawings of Don cossacks during centuries, they seemed to wear more "russian style" uniforms.
Arto

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Semenov
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Re: Diference between a cossack and northcaucasian

#6

Post by Semenov » 25 Apr 2015, 12:49

Arto O wrote: I started to observe different photos, but it is hard to say nothing as in cherkesska wasn´t worn any national shield.
Arto
sometimes it wears on cherkeska in Cossack division. Parade cherkeska was from colour cloth and wear with colour schoulder boards. In this case national schield wasn't wears

Arto O
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Re: Diference between a cossack and northcaucasian

#7

Post by Arto O » 29 Apr 2015, 04:29

Thanks Semenov,
Did you mean that the colour on shoulder boards indicated the nationality of the cossack, when he was wearing cherkeska? Like red for Kuban, black for Terek etc. Do you maybe know these colours. That would interesting.
with best regards
Arto

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Semenov
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Re: Diference between a cossack and northcaucasian

#8

Post by Semenov » 30 Apr 2015, 06:03

Arto O wrote:Thanks Semenov,
Did you mean that the colour on shoulder boards indicated the nationality of the cossack, when he was wearing cherkeska? Like red for Kuban, black for Terek etc. Do you maybe know these colours. That would interesting.
with best regards
Arto
Yes, it is.
From D. Littlejohn Foreign Legions of the Third Reich. Vol. 4.
shoulder.jpg
colour.jpg

Arto O
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Re: Diference between a cossack and northcaucasian

#9

Post by Arto O » 04 May 2015, 03:12

Thanks a lot again Semenov
Arto

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