How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS
How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS
How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS?
I found contradictory statements.
E.g.:
Hirschfeld: Fremdherrschaft und Kollaboration (1984): 20-25.000
van der Zee: 25000 Landverraders. De SS in Nederland - Nederland in de SS (1967): 25.000
Int'Veld: De SS in Nederland (1967): 25.000
but:
Müller: An der Seite der Wehrmacht: (2007!): 40.000
I found contradictory statements.
E.g.:
Hirschfeld: Fremdherrschaft und Kollaboration (1984): 20-25.000
van der Zee: 25000 Landverraders. De SS in Nederland - Nederland in de SS (1967): 25.000
Int'Veld: De SS in Nederland (1967): 25.000
but:
Müller: An der Seite der Wehrmacht: (2007!): 40.000
Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS
From memory ( might not be accurate)
Waffen SS: ABOUT 30,000
Other branches of the Wehrmacht
Kriegsmarine - N.S.K.K. - Heer (not many) - Luftwaffe - Dutch Ambulance corps : ABOUT 20,000
Hilfswilligen ( civilians in uniform for labor only) ABOUT 10,000
Hope this helps
HN
Waffen SS: ABOUT 30,000
Other branches of the Wehrmacht
Kriegsmarine - N.S.K.K. - Heer (not many) - Luftwaffe - Dutch Ambulance corps : ABOUT 20,000
Hilfswilligen ( civilians in uniform for labor only) ABOUT 10,000
Hope this helps
HN
-
- Member
- Posts: 2387
- Joined: 15 Apr 2002, 21:29
- Location: MA, USA
Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS
Former W-SS senior commander Felix Steiner in his 1950's books claimed there were "55,000" Dutch W-SS troops total.
Gerhard Hirschfeld in his book Nazi Rule and Dutch Collaboration: The Netherlands under German Occupation (Oxford: Berg, 1988), estimates 22-25,000 Dutch volunteers in the W-SS 1939-45.
Perry Pierik, in his book From Leningrad to Berlin analyzes the SS-FHA documents for Dutch W-SS volunteers from May 1942 to May 1944 and the total number of volunteers for that period is 20,000.
Gerhard Hirschfeld in his book Nazi Rule and Dutch Collaboration: The Netherlands under German Occupation (Oxford: Berg, 1988), estimates 22-25,000 Dutch volunteers in the W-SS 1939-45.
Perry Pierik, in his book From Leningrad to Berlin analyzes the SS-FHA documents for Dutch W-SS volunteers from May 1942 to May 1944 and the total number of volunteers for that period is 20,000.
Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS
Thanks for your answers.
"Former W-SS senior commander Felix Steiner in his 1950's books claimed there were "55,000" Dutch W-SS troops total."
That is very interesting, thanks.
20.-55.000, what is true?
Müller (2007) estimates 40.000 Dutch volunteers in the Waffen-SS 1939-45.
Maybe he is right...
Maybe ist impossible to get more informations; everybody writes another rate...
"Former W-SS senior commander Felix Steiner in his 1950's books claimed there were "55,000" Dutch W-SS troops total."
That is very interesting, thanks.
20.-55.000, what is true?
Müller (2007) estimates 40.000 Dutch volunteers in the Waffen-SS 1939-45.
Maybe he is right...
Maybe ist impossible to get more informations; everybody writes another rate...
-
- Member
- Posts: 2387
- Joined: 15 Apr 2002, 21:29
- Location: MA, USA
Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS
The consensus among contemporary historians for the estimateed number of Dutch Waffen-SS is roughly 25,000.20.-55.000, what is true?
Presumably Felix Steiner's postwar books (e.g. Army of Outlaws et. al.) wanted to portray the W-SS with the greatest possible strength and the best possible light.
Here's some more statistics for you, from David Littlejohn's The Patriotic Traitors: The History of Collaboration in German-occupied Europe, 1940-45
- In June 1944, the Dutch SS Panzergrenadier Brigade (4.SS-Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Brigade Nederland) strength was 6,713
By Sept 1944 Due to the recent heavy recruiting effort in Holland, Brigade strength was circa 9,000. (note: the brigade strength on the Eastern Front was roughly 6,500; the difference is probably due to AuE [reserve/training/replacement] troops)
By the end of 1944, circa 12,000 Dutch were serving in the W-SS on active duty
At least 3,700 Dutchmen were KIA in the W-SS during WWII
To put the recruitment numbers in some perspective, note that 350,000 Dutchmen served in German industries (from volunteers to slave laborers) during WWII - see p.114
Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS
These are the official (registrated) numbers of Dutch SS volunteers. Note that this only goes till May 1944. A lot volunteered afterwards too (notably in the Hungrewinter). Members of the NSB were pressed into service from Sept.44 etc. I would say that the number of volunteers is something between 25.000-30.000
http://waffen-ss.nl/aantal.php
http://waffen-ss.nl/aantal.php
Code: Select all
Month Year Total
augustus 1942 6.796
november 1942 9.347
december 1942 11.301
april 1943 12.799
mei 1943 14.578
juli 1943 15.766
augustus 1943 16.284
september 1943 16.635
oktober 1943 17.756
november 1943 18.385
december 1943 18.635
januari 1944 19.093
februari 1944 19.478
maart 1944 19.815
mei 1944 20.129
-
- Member
- Posts: 10158
- Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 12:19
Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS
Steiner is clearly a statistical outlier. Everyone else seems to favour the range 20,000-30,000.
Rednas's statistics (above) show about 5,000 joined between May 1943 and May 1944. Assuming the same number were enlisted over the following year, the total would be around 25,000 - bang in the middle of this range.
It seems that there were never quite enough Dutch volunteers to keep a full division permanently in the field, but there were more than sufficient to keep a full brigade permanently in the field.
Rednas's statistics (above) show about 5,000 joined between May 1943 and May 1944. Assuming the same number were enlisted over the following year, the total would be around 25,000 - bang in the middle of this range.
It seems that there were never quite enough Dutch volunteers to keep a full division permanently in the field, but there were more than sufficient to keep a full brigade permanently in the field.
Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS
Well, if you did speak about Nederland, then according to Militärgeschichtliche Mitteilungen 2/80 it did have in December 1943:Sid Guttridge wrote:but there were more than sufficient to keep a full brigade permanently in the field.
"Germanische Freiwillige aus Niederlande" 33/199/1984 (Führer/Unterführer/Mannschaften)
"Reichsdeutsche" 94/497/457
"Volksdeutsche aus Rumänien" 0/25/2070
and few other categories.
dutch serving in other units of Corps:
Nordland: 1/19/254
SS-Korps-Nachschub-Truppen 103: 1/0/6
Korps-Hauptquartier, Korps-Sicherungskompanie, Kriegsberichter und Feldgendarmerie: 2/8/129
reference goes to Tätigkeitsbericht des Korps-Kommandos des III. (germ.) SS-Panzerkorps vom 31.3.1944, BA-MA RS 2-3/2.
most important for III.SS-Pz.Korps were "Volksdeutsche aus Rumänien", second "Reichsdeutsche" (leader in Führer-category) and at third "Germanische Freiwillige aus Niederlande".
-
- Member
- Posts: 10158
- Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 12:19
Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS
Hi Andrus,
You highlight something often overlooked. The ±60,000 Romanian volksdeutshe, who were largely conscripted in 1943-44, were widely used to fill out under recruiting north-western European W-SS volunteer units, thereby inflating the apparently Nordic element in the W-SS's order of battle.
You highlight something often overlooked. The ±60,000 Romanian volksdeutshe, who were largely conscripted in 1943-44, were widely used to fill out under recruiting north-western European W-SS volunteer units, thereby inflating the apparently Nordic element in the W-SS's order of battle.
-
- Member
- Posts: 29
- Joined: 01 Jul 2009, 08:07
Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS
Some sources say on the subject of the fact that the 50,000 number is reached when you count the total number of people who enlisted, but didn't make it trough the medical examination.
-
- Member
- Posts: 2387
- Joined: 15 Apr 2002, 21:29
- Location: MA, USA
Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS
Which sources?Some sources say on the subject of the fact that the 50,000 number is reached when you count the total number of people who enlisted, but didn't make it trough the medical examination
Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS
Hello!
I search infos about SS-oficier Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands
Best wishes!
I search infos about SS-oficier Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands
Best wishes!
Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS
Prince Bernhard in mentionned here:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=46025
here:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 4&p=427038
here:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=43290
and here:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 2&t=142407
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=46025
here:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 4&p=427038
here:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=43290
and here:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 2&t=142407
Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS
Thanks! I don't found him in Foreign vol's section. He was german birth, not dutchYpenburg wrote:Prince Bernhard in mentionned here:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=46025
here:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 4&p=427038
here:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=43290
and here:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 2&t=142407