Charlemagne in Berlin

Discussions on the foreigners (volunteers as well as conscripts) fighting in the German Wehrmacht, those collaborating with the Axis and other period Far Right organizations. Hosted by George Lepre.
Post Reply
Sid Guttridge
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 12:19

Re: Charlemagne in Berlin

#61

Post by Sid Guttridge » 27 Nov 2014, 15:48

Hi Michael,

Good Heavens!

I have never before seen real time combat photographs of the same scene from both sides.

Surely this deserves a thread of its own?

Sid.

P.S. Jelgava it is, then!

dshaday
Member
Posts: 628
Joined: 29 Dec 2013, 19:57

Re: Charlemagne in Berlin

#62

Post by dshaday » 29 Nov 2014, 13:01

Hi Michael

While we are looking closely at period pictures. The picture you posted on 6 November of two Russians next to a large pile of discarded German medals had the caption:

"The number of KC's claimed to have been awarded in the last days is a subject mired in much controversy.
Given they seem to have been scattered like confetti it is only to be expected."

The photo actually shows a large pile of medals and boxes for the German long service medal. Likely 25 year long service medals. There are a few odd medals on the first step, but none appear to be Knight Crosses (KC). Any implication that these are bulk Knights Crosses in the photo is a non sense.

Regards

Dennis


Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 8251
Joined: 07 May 2002, 20:40
Location: Teesside

Re: Charlemagne in Berlin

#63

Post by Michael Kenny » 29 Nov 2014, 13:11

dshaday wrote:
The photo actually shows a large pile of medals and boxes for the German long service medal. Likely 25 year long service medals. There are a few odd medals on the first step, but none appear to be Knight Crosses (KC). Any implication that these are bulk Knights Crosses in the photo is a non sense.
Get yourself a sense of humour.

dshaday
Member
Posts: 628
Joined: 29 Dec 2013, 19:57

Re: Charlemagne in Berlin

#64

Post by dshaday » 29 Nov 2014, 13:37

Hi
Michael Kenny wrote:
dshaday wrote:
The photo actually shows a large pile of medals and boxes for the German long service medal. Likely 25 year long service medals. There are a few odd medals on the first step, but none appear to be Knight Crosses (KC). Any implication that these are bulk Knights Crosses in the photo is a non sense.
Get yourself a sense of humour.
Maybe you consider this site a comedy channel and treat it as such? I do not.

Dennis

User avatar
Marcus
Member
Posts: 33963
Joined: 08 Mar 2002, 23:35
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Charlemagne in Berlin

#65

Post by Marcus » 29 Nov 2014, 14:08

Drop the personal comments and get back on topic.

/Marcus

User avatar
ViKinG
Member
Posts: 533
Joined: 08 Mar 2004, 09:14
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada

Re: Charlemagne in Berlin

#66

Post by ViKinG » 01 Dec 2014, 23:01

Very neat to see pictures of Russian and then German soldiers with the same tank in the background. Don't think I've ever seen a picture like that so far! =)

Luc

sandeepmukherjee196
Member
Posts: 1524
Joined: 07 Aug 2014, 06:34

Re: Charlemagne in Berlin

#67

Post by sandeepmukherjee196 » 02 Dec 2014, 06:36

HI Dennis....

One thing has been established here ... The Charlemagne unit went to Berlin, fought and died there, won the highest decorations and left a mark on events. They also did enough to impact public perception for decades to follow.

When a serious discussions is replaced by trivia, well, the only thing one can do is to look for more material..I for one would continue doing that about this subject.

Thanks again for your informed and thoughtful contributions.

Ciao
Sandeep

Rob - wssob2
Member
Posts: 2387
Joined: 15 Apr 2002, 21:29
Location: MA, USA

Re: Charlemagne in Berlin

#68

Post by Rob - wssob2 » 03 Dec 2014, 06:04

When a serious discussions is replaced by trivia, well, the only thing one can do is to look for more material..I for one would continue doing that about this subject
Perhaps you can troll through some more gaming forum sites for mis-identified photos of Soviet tanks and erroneously present them as "more material"...
The Charlemagne unit went to Berlin, fought and died there, won the highest decorations and left a mark on events. They also did enough to impact public perception for decades to follow.
1) Only a tiny fraction of the division fought in Berlin

2) It's contribution to the battle is difficult to ascertain, with grossly overinflated claims made by postwar veterans and sympathetic far-right-wing polemicists.

3) The Knight's Cross awards are allegations, denied by their own division commander.

4) Their "impact to public perception" is negligible, with exception to neo-fascists and Revisionists.

Le Page
Member
Posts: 177
Joined: 30 Apr 2004, 21:47
Location: usa

Re: Charlemagne in Berlin

#69

Post by Le Page » 19 Dec 2014, 01:44


sandeepmukherjee196
Member
Posts: 1524
Joined: 07 Aug 2014, 06:34

Re: Charlemagne in Berlin

#70

Post by sandeepmukherjee196 » 07 Jun 2016, 12:00

Le Page..have you been able to read the book, in the meantime, yourself please? Am interested to know if the Charlemagne part sounds credible.

Ciao
Sandeep

Le Page
Member
Posts: 177
Joined: 30 Apr 2004, 21:47
Location: usa

Re: Charlemagne in Berlin

#71

Post by Le Page » 07 Jun 2016, 16:50

To be honest I just threw it in the corner. Don't know if I'll ever read it, since the reviews were bad.

sandeepmukherjee196
Member
Posts: 1524
Joined: 07 Aug 2014, 06:34

Re: Charlemagne in Berlin

#72

Post by sandeepmukherjee196 » 08 Jun 2016, 05:12

Le Page wrote:To be honest I just threw it in the corner. Don't know if I'll ever read it, since the reviews were bad.
:D

A lot of people make up stuff about the last days of WWII. I have a book called the Devil's Brigade or some such name. Purportedly written by a Waffen-SS veteran who later served with the French in Vietnam.

As it unfolds, it becomes so ridiculous and predictable, I have had to leave it half read !!

Ciao
Sandeep

George Lepre
Host - Foreign volunteers section
Posts: 769
Joined: 13 Aug 2002, 22:39
Location: United States

Re: Charlemagne in Berlin

#73

Post by George Lepre » 08 Jun 2016, 07:05

Hi Sandeep -

Thanks for your message.

I believe the book you are referring to is "On the Devil's Tail" by Paul Martelli. I have read somewhere that certain people believe that this book is phoney. However, I have not seen any critique or critical review on the topic.

If you could critique the book here it would be most appreciated.

Best regards,

George

sandeepmukherjee196
Member
Posts: 1524
Joined: 07 Aug 2014, 06:34

Re: Charlemagne in Berlin

#74

Post by sandeepmukherjee196 » 08 Jun 2016, 07:29

George Lepre wrote:Hi Sandeep -

Thanks for your message.

I believe the book you are referring to is "On the Devil's Tail" by Paul Martelli. I have read somewhere that certain people believe that this book is phoney. However, I have not seen any critique or critical review on the topic.

If you could critique the book here it would be most appreciated.

Best regards,

George
Hi George..

Thanks for writing. Yes thats the name of the book. Actually 'am travelling abroad now, the book is at home ! Will dig it up once 'am back.

From what I remember off the cuff...The action starts with the main protagonist involved in the last bloody days of the war in Czechoslovakia. Even there, according to me, the action is a bit overstated, with humongous losses attributed to the other side (Russian)\, inflicted by the cornered unit of the protaginist.

Then he finds his way back to Germany, after his unit splits up in small groups. He dodges the US dragnet in the first few days after the war and comes across a guy ..fishing quietly in a picturesque countryside locale. This guy turns out to be another fugitive SS soldier and puts him onto a escape network. Via their good offices, he makes it to Switzerland and is quartered comfortably in fully equipped facilites for escaping fugitives from Germany.

After that he somehow (forgetting the details) finds his way into the Foreign Legion and Indo China. The action in Vietnam starts off quite realistically. How the German contingent is first looked down upon and treated as a penal unit. Then comes the hard action and the glory. Then the blood and gore! And oh boy!..There is a helluva blood and gore !

There are atrocities and counter atrocities. A litany of hatred against the Vietnamese. The narration carries on into Chinese territory and again bloody action and of course mega success ! There is romance with a "good" local girl and some fraternisation with "good" locals.

I stopped reading after sometime since the action was very apparently made up, over the top, cliched stuff.

Once I return home to India, I will look it up some more.

Ciao
Sandeep

George Lepre
Host - Foreign volunteers section
Posts: 769
Joined: 13 Aug 2002, 22:39
Location: United States

Re: Charlemagne in Berlin

#75

Post by George Lepre » 09 Jun 2016, 04:34

Hi Sandeep -

Thanks for your review.

I searched the forum and found that it was none other than our own Le Page who mentioned the book being false.

Le Page - do you remember where you saw the discussion regarding the book On the Devil's Tail?

George

Post Reply

Return to “Foreign Volunteers & Collaboration”