French Selbstschutz

Discussions on the foreigners (volunteers as well as conscripts) fighting in the German Wehrmacht, those collaborating with the Axis and other period Far Right organizations. Hosted by George Lepre.
Malbret17
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Re: French Selbstschutz

#16

Post by Malbret17 » 03 Apr 2016, 15:50

No, It is french uniform 1936 (bleu foncé). The French M-1941 uniform was for French Militia (Milice française) blue for Permanent Franc grade (Franc-Garde permanente) and Kaki for benevole one.

Cassius29
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Re: French Selbstschutz

#17

Post by Cassius29 » 03 Apr 2016, 20:39

[quote="Malbret17"]No, It is french uniform 1936 (bleu foncé). The French M-1941 uniform was for French Militia (Milice française) blue for Permanent Franc grade (Franc-Garde permanente) and Kaki for benevole one.[/quote]



I have never seen a French M1936 uniform, (bleu foncé) . Is it originally for Police or Air Force? I found this image
online when referring to "Selbstschutzpolizei". That is why I thought it was M-1941 uniform,(uniforme de Milice).
Attachments
selbstschutzpolizei_france_1943_44.png


Malbret17
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Re: French Selbstschutz

#18

Post by Malbret17 » 04 Apr 2016, 09:40

Hi,

It is French uniform 1935 instead of 1936. This dark blue uniform was for Chasseurs alpins. The collar is the same for the Army, and there are no buttons at the end of the arm. The buttons were black or silver but no gold. There was a uniform 1941 for Militia and an other one for the Chasseurs Alpins, very close each other (only the shoulders strips were different). I do not know how to join photos on this blog.

Regards

Cassius29
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Re: French Selbstschutz

#19

Post by Cassius29 » 04 Apr 2016, 09:54

[quote="Malbret17"]Hi,

It is French uniform 1935 instead of 1936. This dark blue uniform was for Chasseurs alpins. The collar is the same for the Army, and there are no buttons at the end of the arm. The buttons were black or silver but no gold. There was a uniform 1941 for Militia and an other one for the Chasseurs Alpins, very close each other (only the shoulders strips were different). I do not know how to join photos on this blog.

Regards[/quote]
Is this the "Chasseurs Alpins" M-1935 uniform you are talking about? And also worn by the "Selbstschutzpolizei"?
Attachments
Chassuer2.jpg

Malbret17
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Re: French Selbstschutz

#20

Post by Malbret17 » 04 Apr 2016, 14:48

Exactly. It is this one. But the béret is replaced by a german (calot) with polizei insigna.

Photos of Selbstschutz are very hard to find. The only one which are known come from Rennes in Britany where twelve or thirteen men have been photographed. These photos are kept in Secret Police Archivia.

Cassius29
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Re: French Selbstschutz

#21

Post by Cassius29 » 04 Apr 2016, 22:08

Malbert,

Thank you. How do you or anyone know that the "Selbstschutz" wore the M-1935 "Chasseurs Alpins" uniform? Is there a book an author that describe it?

Malbret17
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Re: French Selbstschutz

#22

Post by Malbret17 » 05 Apr 2016, 16:10

No, it is only from photos. There are no books about this organization.

Cassius29
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Re: French Selbstschutz

#23

Post by Cassius29 » 05 Apr 2016, 18:16

Who has seen the photos? I just want to understand the source if the M-1935 "Chassuer Alpin" uniform is authentic. I first read about the "Selbstshutz" in a magazine called Axis Europa. I don't have the article anymore but I remember it said that the German cap worn was a "Kriegsmarine"(Navy) side cap.

Malbret17
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Re: French Selbstschutz

#24

Post by Malbret17 » 05 Apr 2016, 19:14

The German cap was a kriegsmarine side cap with the police insigna in front.
I have ridden this text from Axis Europa. I saw the photos of the Selbstschutz polizei in a booklet made by military police about collaboration in Britany. In a Axis Europa big book there was a colored drawing showing a Selbstschutz man but the uniform was the Militia one. I have met members of SSP and they told me what was their uniform. I could made comparison with photos and what they told me. Halas, they are all dead now.

Cassius29
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Re: French Selbstschutz

#25

Post by Cassius29 » 05 Apr 2016, 19:25

Ah okay. I know the Militia,(Milice) uniform you mention. It is based on the M-1941 uniform...
Attachments
milice_tunic.jpg
milice_tunic.jpg (26.5 KiB) Viewed 1598 times

Cassius29
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Re: French Selbstschutz

#26

Post by Cassius29 » 06 Apr 2016, 03:05

Do you know what kind of weapons were issued to "Selbstschutzpolizei"? I use to have the Axis Europa article but I lost it. However I think I remember from that same article that they were issued holsters without pistols. The stuffed newspaper in them to look like they had pistols. I think later they were issues WWI French rifles. Does that sound familiar?

George Lepre
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Re: French Selbstschutz

#27

Post by George Lepre » 06 Apr 2016, 03:21

Hi Everyone -

This is an excellent thread. Thank you to everyone who contributed.

I was quite surprised to see this thread, because it just so happens that a French researcher friend of mine asked me to obtain the SD in Rennes file for him from the U.S. National Archives II. The file is an English language translation of a file that was found in the Rennes SD building after it was captured by the Allies. The file contains biographical information about the French members of this small Selbstschutz. Nearly all of them had weapons of one type or another.

The file location is: NARA II, RG 319, CIC Collection, SD in Rennes, Box 11, File XE 019357.

Hello Cassius29, here is the photo for you. I hope this is helpful:
Attachments
0405162109.jpg

Malbret17
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Re: French Selbstschutz

#28

Post by Malbret17 » 06 Apr 2016, 10:56

Hi George Lepre,

I am very glad to see that you knew this photo. In the booklet, every man was identified. There was also photo of face of every one. But this photo is only for the twelve or thirteen members of Rennes. There were in France between 250 and 300.

Regards

Cassius29
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Re: French Selbstschutz

#29

Post by Cassius29 » 06 Apr 2016, 15:52

George Lepre,

Thanks for adding the picture. I don't know what it is though. Looks like SS to me even though it is blurry. Did they
wear German uniforms as well?

Malbret17
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Posts: 99
Joined: 18 May 2007, 00:46
Location: France

Re: French Selbstschutz

#30

Post by Malbret17 » 06 Apr 2016, 16:36

Their uniform is dark blue, cap, vest and trousers. The armband on the left arm is yellow with Selbstschutz written in black on it.
The man in german uniform is a german soldier. They had mosquito mod. 92 (short rifles) and MP Sten from England. The man in extreme right of the photo with white band around the collar is an unteroffizier. They don't wear german uniforms but sometimes they were in civilian clothes.

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