French volunteers

Discussions on the foreigners (volunteers as well as conscripts) fighting in the German Wehrmacht, those collaborating with the Axis and other period Far Right organizations. Hosted by George Lepre.
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Askold
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#136

Post by Askold » 17 Apr 2007, 09:31

"Dahau" styled shield for French SS
Original collar tab, probably made as a sample but never issued.
(both images taken from WA forum)
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french dahau.JPG
french dahau.JPG (74.78 KiB) Viewed 3172 times
frenchtabF.jpg
frenchtabF.jpg (51.49 KiB) Viewed 3170 times

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Daniel Laurent
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#137

Post by Daniel Laurent » 17 Apr 2007, 13:59

Hi, Askold,
Sorry, but I am quite sure that the two pix you posted show fake insignas, produced after the war.

- The collar tab, as far as I know and as far as veterans of the Charlemagne told me, never went more far than a project on drawings.

- The armshield looks like nothing known.

For the record, the armshield of the W-SS Sturmbrigade and the Charlemagne :

Image

And the armshield of the French LVF (636 IR)

Image

Sources :
Waffen-SS armshield : I got the pix from a veteran
LVF armshield : Magazine Batailles

Regards
Daniel


Renech
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#138

Post by Renech » 20 Apr 2007, 17:48

Hi Daniel, the Waffen-SS Dachau shield that Askold posted IMO is original.
Also the arm-shield that you posted belongs to me and is posted in my web site: http://axis101.bizland.com/Charlemagne1.htm

V/R
Rene Chavez
Http://axis101.bizland.com

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Daniel Laurent
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#139

Post by Daniel Laurent » 21 Apr 2007, 05:04

Renech wrote:Hi Daniel, the Waffen-SS Dachau shield that Askold posted IMO is original.

Well, a representative of the CDVFFE (Association of the descendants of the French veterans of the Eastern Front) posted a long message in a French forum where he confirms that the collar tab was a project only and was never produced during the war (No time, remember that the Charlemagne was created end of 1944).
I can post the link if you wish, but it is in French.
Also the arm-shield that you posted belongs to me and is posted in my web site: http://axis101.bizland.com/Charlemagne1.htm
I don't know if it belongs to you, the pix I posted, as mentionned, are, for the LVF armshield, an extract of an article in the Magazine Batailles and is labelled "Collection G. Le Marec - Drawings P.P. Lambert". The full page is 17,000 Kb, I can't post it here, but I can email it to anyone providing me with a valid email address by MP (Moderators welcome) and, for the W-SS armshield, a pix from my hard disk found in the Net. I visited your website, it is definitely not from there that I found it. So, someone else has been "stealing it" from you and posting it somewhere. It can be painfull to retrieve the origin, but if needed, I can try to find it back.

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#140

Post by Renech » 22 Apr 2007, 04:56

Hi Daniel, yes the collar tab was a project and I also believe that the item shown to be questionable but I'm talking about the arm-shield, which I believe is original.

Now concerning my sleeve eagle and arm-shield well it is definitely mine. I have it in my collection along with everything that is posted in my web site. If you wish I could post images of it with whatever items that are posted in my web site. Unfortunately who ever posted my item in the "Collection G. Le Marec - Drawings P.P. Lambert." did it without my permission. You will also find my item posted in Wikipedia under Charlemagne. This is very unfortunate because I provide a free educational service to historians and collectors and the idea that people are taking images of my items without my permission just makes me rethink if I should just remove my web site. You know if someone wants to post an item from my web site all I ask is to let me know or indicate the source, I'm not asking for much.

V/R
Rene Chavez
Http://axis101.bizland.com

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Askold
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#141

Post by Askold » 23 Apr 2007, 10:08

Hello Daniel, I've been collecting insignia for some time and usually can tell whats good and bad ;) In my opinion the items are original. If you care to examine the photos, you'll see French volunteers in SS wearing such shields. The shield you posted is that of French volunteers in Wehrmacht and not SS. As for the tab - some of the biggerst names in cloth collecting approve it as original sample item and I tend to agree with them - I don't even thing a fake version of such patch exists.

Rene:
Do you own a whole uniform or just a pice of sleeve with the eagle and the shield?

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#142

Post by Renech » 23 Apr 2007, 16:24

Hi Askold, it is a cut-off piece.....I wish it was the whole tunic!

V/R
Rene Chavez
Http://axis101.bizland.com

Reichenberg 40
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Number of French Soldiers Fighting for Germany

#143

Post by Reichenberg 40 » 14 Nov 2007, 19:42

I have recently read that more French soldiers died fighting FOR the Third Reich than AGAINST the Third Reich. I am not really sure about this. I read in "The Third Reich" series by Time-Life that about 90,000 French soldiers fell during the May/June campaign of 1940. I hope my memory serves me correctly because that figure seems a bit high. So the number of French soldiers who died fighting on the side of the Reich would have to be at least slightly more that 90,000. Does anyone have any information on that?

Reichenberg 40

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Qvist
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#144

Post by Qvist » 14 Nov 2007, 22:27

That cannot possibly be correct. The Free French formations vastly outnumbered the paltry, few thousand-strong French volunteer formations who fought in the East (and that mainly in a rear area security role, if I remember correctly), in addition to which come the casualties in the 1940 campaign. Even if you factor in Alsatians conscripted into the German army, and add Vichy losses in NW Africa in 1942, I just don't see how that can work out.

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#145

Post by Andreas » 14 Nov 2007, 23:14

Do you know how many Alsatians were conscripted in Qvist?

All the best

Andreas

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Qvist
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#146

Post by Qvist » 15 Nov 2007, 00:32

Not altogether, but I think I have an overview somewhere of the number serving at a particular point in 1944. Will rummage around and see if can find it. It wasn't an awfully high figure as I recall.

cheers

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D.Laurent
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#147

Post by D.Laurent » 15 Nov 2007, 13:11

100 000 alsacians
30 000 mosellans

those forced enlisted were called (malgrès-nous).
if i remember correctly about 30 000 died on the eastern front.

I guess someone will give you more details and book to read about the malgres-nous if you are interrested !

Reichenberg 40
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#148

Post by Reichenberg 40 » 15 Nov 2007, 18:22

Thank you for your replies. That answers my question.

Reichenberg 40

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Semenov
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re

#149

Post by Semenov » 15 Nov 2007, 20:30

Hi,
Mr. Laurent what you source for that numbers?

Regards!

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D.Laurent
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#150

Post by D.Laurent » 16 Nov 2007, 13:05

:oops: sorry i can't give you an exact source.
These numbers are very common i would say. (school,article,tv history programm, etc ...)
If they were false, a malgres-nous association would have rectify them, i guess.
I expected someone who know well this subject would provide precise details about them etc ...

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