The Indian Volunteers in the German Army and Waffen-SS

Discussions on the foreigners (volunteers as well as conscripts) fighting in the German Wehrmacht, those collaborating with the Axis and other period Far Right organizations. Hosted by George Lepre.
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Rob - wssob2
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Re: Operation Bajadere? do you have any info?

#76

Post by Rob - wssob2 » 21 Nov 2008, 19:23

There isn't a lot of verified information about Operation Bajadere. The wikipedia entry cites Jason Pipe's feldgrau site as the source, but Feldgrau only provides Axis volunteer historian David Littlejohn as his source.

Some folks have called into question the existence of Operation Bajadere. See:
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive ... 00559.html

Here's a list from http://wapedia.mobi/en/First_Indian_Nat ... rmy?t=9.#9. regarding the First India National Army. The article mentions Operation Bajadere. you might be able to find information on the operation in one of the following sources:

* Lebra, Joyce C. (1977), Japanese trained armies in South-East Asia, New York, Columbia University Press, ISBN 0231039956.
* Friedman, Irving S. (1940), Pacific Affairs, Vol. 13, No. 1., Pacific Affairs, University of British Columbia..
* Dignan, Don. (1983), The Indian revolutionary problem in British Diplomacy,1914-1919., New Delhi, Allied Publishers..
* Kaushik, Karuna (1984), Russian Revolution (1917) and Indian nationalism:Studies of Lajpat Rai, Subhash Chandra Bose and Ram Manohar Lohia, Delhi, Chanakya Publications..
* Brown, Emily (1986), (in Book Reviews; South Asia). The Journal of Asian Studies, Vol. 45, No. 2., Pacific Affairs, University of British Columbia..
* Hauner, Milan (1981), India in Axis Strategy. Germany, Japan and Indian Nationalists in the Second World War, Stuttgart, Klett-Cotta., ISBN 3129153403.
* Lundari, Giuseppe (1989), I paracadutisti italiani 1937/45, Milan, E.M.I..
* Cohen, Stephen C. (1983), (in Book Reviews) Pacific Affairs, Vol. 56, No. 2. pp. 350-352, New York, Columbia University Press, ISBN 0231039956.
* Slim, W. (1961), Defeat Into Victory., New York, David McKay., ISBN 1568490771.
* Ghosh, K.K (1969), The Indian National Army: Second Front of the Indian Independence Movement., Meerut, Meenakshi Prakashan.

* Lundari, Giuseppe (1989), I paracadutisti italiani 1937/45, Milan, E.M.I..
* Tojo, Hideki (Premier) . (1943), Axis War Makes Easier Task of Indians. Chandra Bose's Berlin Speech. Syonan Simbun, Domei.
* Littlejohn, Davis (1987), Foreign Legions of the Third Reich, Vol 4: Poland, the Ukraine, Bulgaria, Romania, Free India, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Finland and Russia, San Jose, Bender Publishing., ISBN 091213836X.
* Kurowski, Franz (1997), The Brandenburgers Global Mission., Fedorowicz (J.J.),Canada., ISBN 092199138X.
* Munoz, Antonio J. (2002), The East Came West: Muslim, Hindu & Buddhist Volunteers in the German Armed Forces, 1941-1945., Axis Europa Books., ISBN 1891227394.
* Fay, Peter W. (1993), The Forgotten Army: India's Armed Struggle for Independence, 1942-1945., Ann Arbor, University of Michigan Press., ISBN 0472083422.
* Moreman, T.R. (2005), The Jungle, the Japanese and the British Commonwealth Armies at War 1941-1945: Fighting Methods, Doctrine and Training for Jungle Warfare., London and New York: Frank Cass., ISBN 0714649708.
* Allen, L. (1971), (in Reviews) Modern Asian Studies, Vol. 5, No. 1. (1971)pp. 89-92., Cambridge University Press., <http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0026-7 ... 0.CO%3B2-T>.
* Green, L.C. (1948), The Indian National Army Trials. The Modern Law Review, Vol. 11, No. 1. (Jan., 1948), pp. 47-69., London, Blackwell..


My take would be that "Operation Bajadere" - if it even existed - was neither big nor successful as a clandestine operation.

warriorx
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indian legion? 3.500 men? but why in 1945 2.300 men?

#77

Post by warriorx » 28 Nov 2008, 14:52

hail all !

i read some books about indian legion and they say indian legion had 3.500 soldiers.
but in the "east came west" we can see that antionio monuz say in march 1945 indian legion had 2,300 men.
in these book authors said indian legion didnt have any battle... but if it is correct that legion had 2.300 men in march 1945, it means legion lost 1,200 men in 2-3 years ... . so how? do you know anything about this?


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Doudou
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Re: indian legion? 3.500 men? but why in 1945 2.300 men?

#78

Post by Doudou » 29 Nov 2008, 15:01

Hi,

I think they are four elements to explain that:

- in the second part of 1943, two german blockade runners transfered some hundreds of Indian soldiers of the Infanterie-Regiment 950 (ind.) to Singapore after the departure of Subhas Chandra Bose to Japan by submarine (aboard, there were some soldiers and officers of the regiment too) on february 1943.
- After the departure of the Netaji there was a mutinery in the Infanterie-Regiment 950 (ind.), so 47 Indian soldiers were definitly transfered in prisoners camps in Germany.
- From august 1944 to september, after the D-Day in France, the Infanterie-Regiment 950 (ind.) stationed in the region of Bordeaux had to retreat quickly to the East not to be trapped by Allied forces. So, they retreated but where often attacked by the French Resistance which caused heavy losses to the Indian Regiment.
- In these circumstances, far from their home, seeing the collapse of Germany, I think there were some desertions... The fact is some were captured by French partisans in autumn 1944: prisoners of war or deserters ? Both, I think.

I hope these elements will help you...

Cheers,

Yann.

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eneargd
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Re: Legion Freies Indien / Azad Hind

#79

Post by eneargd » 16 Aug 2010, 11:59

Interessante!
Ciao Massimiliano, io abito vicino a SCHIO.
Tu di dove sei?
Caio.

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Marcus
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Re: Legion Freies Indien / Azad Hind

#80

Post by Marcus » 17 Aug 2010, 18:52

Please write in English.

/Marcus

Ljotrulf
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Re: Legion Freies Indien / Azad Hind

#81

Post by Ljotrulf » 17 Aug 2010, 20:31

George Lepre wrote:Hello Stein55 -

I know of a few sources, although you may already possess this information.

There is a book that was published in India about 15 years ago titled Indian National Army: Role in India's Struggle for Freedom. The author, G.S. Mangat, was one of the first eight members of the I.N.A. in Germany and later became an officer. He knew Bose personally. This book is highly recommended.
Whilst Mangat's book is tricky to find, Amazon are still selling "The Sign of the Tiger" by Rudolf Hartog, a member of the German cadre of the Indian Legion (still alive and living in Germany). See also this from the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3684288.stm

Panzermahn
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Re: Legion Freies Indien / Azad Hind

#82

Post by Panzermahn » 18 Aug 2010, 02:09

Ljotrulf wrote:
George Lepre wrote:Hello Stein55 -

I know of a few sources, although you may already possess this information.

There is a book that was published in India about 15 years ago titled Indian National Army: Role in India's Struggle for Freedom. The author, G.S. Mangat, was one of the first eight members of the I.N.A. in Germany and later became an officer. He knew Bose personally. This book is highly recommended.
Whilst Mangat's book is tricky to find, Amazon are still selling "The Sign of the Tiger" by Rudolf Hartog, a member of the German cadre of the Indian Legion (still alive and living in Germany). See also this from the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3684288.stm

There is another book by Gurbachan Singh Mangat, The Tiger Strikes (1986) and Hartog listed this book in the bibliography section of the The Sign of the Tiger.

I was informed that Rudolf Hartog (one of the Hindustani interpreters of the Legion) is the only surviving veteran of the Indian Legion still living in Germany. The last Indian veteran of the legion passed away in the late 1990s.

Also, Bose's daughter is still living today and a Professor of Economics in a German University

George Lepre
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Re: Legion Freies Indien / Azad Hind

#83

Post by George Lepre » 19 Aug 2010, 18:14

Here is a post from Panzermahn that disappeared but was recovered from google:

Re: Legion Freies Indien / Azad Hind
by Panzermahn on 16 Aug 2010 12:37

There is a book that was published in India about 15 years ago titled Indian National Army: Role in India's Struggle for Freedom. The author, G.S. Mangat, was one of the first eight members of the I.N.A. in Germany and later became an officer. He knew Bose personally. This book is highly recommended


I think the book was entitled "The Tiger Strikes" by Gurbachan Singh Mangat (1986)


Also, Mangat states that several Indians were decorated with the Iron Cross in France. The Bundesarchiv might have records of this


Rudolf Hartog, in his book, The Sign of the Tiger, mentioned only Gefreiter Mohammad Rashid who was decorated with Iron Cross 2nd Class for destroying 4 French tanks with an anti-tank gun during the retreat from France.


I have few informations an original document of the not german unit in Italy from the second middle of 1944 and appears 9.Komp./Ind.Frw.Leg. the strange think is that the company that was in the town of Schio norh of Vicenza NE Italy was under the order ofr the BdS, the indians tooke part to some antipartisan operation (Timpano was one of them in German I don't know the translation) and on the 8 of may 1945 they were in Bozen and this time the order is in the central archiv in Rom the Stadt Kommandat let the now SS Indische Freiwilligen Legion members free to run in civilian cloths akting as they were POW of the italo-german.
Max


I had a bad quality of scan of a demobilization document of the SS Polizei Regiment Bozen dated 2nd May 1945 that listed a group of Spanish volunteer names as well as two names (both of them are Sikhs) from the Indische Freiwilligen Legion der SS


Hope to hear from someone out there


You may want to get in touch with Dr. Martin J. Bamber, who also spend more than a decade to research the Indian Legion. I was informed that there are no more surviving Indian veterans of the Indian Legion. The only remaining survivor of the Indian Legion is Rudolf Hartog (the Legion's Hindustani interpreter) living in Germany

fons
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Re: Legion Freies Indien / Azad Hind

#84

Post by fons » 22 Aug 2010, 18:19

You may want to get in touch with Dr. Martin J. Bamber, who also spend more than a decade to research the Indian Legion.
As I understood Mr. Hartog begged to differ, based on what Bamber wrote in "The East Came West" I agree ;)

cheerios,
fons

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LegionFreiesIndien
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Re: Legion Freies Indien / Azad Hind

#85

Post by LegionFreiesIndien » 17 Sep 2010, 18:05

Please see:

www.freeindianlegion.info

Regards,

LegionFreiesIndien
"For Free India" - www.freeindianlegion.info

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Forst
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Re: Legion Freies Indien / Azad Hind

#86

Post by Forst » 29 Nov 2010, 17:01

Hello, If anyone has any information on where I might purchase rights to a few Indian Legion or preferably S. C. Bose photographs in Germany please let me know urgently. This is for an academic publication. Also if anyone has any information as to how Peter Krappe the son of Legion commander might be contacted I would be grateful. Any additional info welcome as well.

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Forst
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Re: Let's build: Indische Freiwilligen Legion der Waffen-SS

#87

Post by Forst » 29 Nov 2010, 17:03

If anyone has the rights to pictures of S. C. Bose in Germany or on Indian legionnaires please let me know. This is for an academic publication and urgent.

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Forst
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Re: Legion Azad Hind pictures

#88

Post by Forst » 29 Nov 2010, 17:11

Does anyone knows how I might obtain the rights to the second picture for publication. The matter is urgent and I am open to any leads or suggestion.

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Forst
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Azad Hind/ Free India photographs

#89

Post by Forst » 29 Nov 2010, 17:32

Hello,

Several problems posed by what should be fairly simple. I am looking to purchase the rights to a few images of Subhas Chandra Bose and the Free India movement for an academic publication. The matter is most urgent but far from simple now that I leave theory behind and enter the practical. It is my experience that every Tom, Dick and Harry including this and that institute here and there claim the same copyright to the same photographs. Does not make much sense.

For example the image of the Bose-Hitler meeting is available from at least two major archives in India yet when I asked the Bundesarchiv to find it for me and they were unable to do so. Further since the image was taken in Germany it must reside with a German archive. Surely it should not be too hard to determine who has the original copyright to this image?

I would in particular like to obtain the rights to the group image which includes the Japanese ambassador Oshima, an Indian officer and Nambiar, Bose's successor as head of the Free India Center. Does anyone know where I might obtain the rights?

Finally and more generally I am only interested in purchasing genuine rights so as to avoid any legal complications later. If you are a genuine copyright owner or know of any where I might purchase rights for publication please let me know urgently.

Below is a link to a series of common Azad Hind photographs one often sees on the internet but I can still not determine the original copyright!

http://bharat-baid.sulekha.com/blog/pos ... a-bose.htm

Wikipedia claims that the following photograph of Bose and a German officer (not Rommel as stated) is free of copyright but this is highly dubious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bose_and_Rommel.jpg

Any indications to existing online archives would also be welcome.

I end again with an appeal for clarification on this matter and above all any indications as to where I might be able to obtain valid reproduction rights or at least information on the said subject.

i.e contacts, links, suggestions etc would be most welcome and depending on their usefulness I would be most happy to provide citations in the book at the very least.
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Panzermahn
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Re: Azad Hind/ Free India photographs

#90

Post by Panzermahn » 30 Nov 2010, 05:19

There is a new book about the Indian Legion, Free India by Martin Bamber and Aad Neevan

www.freeindianlegion.info

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