Afghan Army and Air Force

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Seanus
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Afghan Army and Air Force

#1

Post by Seanus » 05 Jul 2006, 07:19

Hi again,

Does anyone have any detailed information on the Royal Afghan Army before WW2?
I've got bits and pieces but don't have any detail of arm of service colours, etc.
Any help? :D

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Billy
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#2

Post by Billy » 18 Sep 2006, 05:01

I'm in the same boat as you, i can't even find pictures of them.


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K.Kocjancic
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#3

Post by K.Kocjancic » 18 Sep 2006, 10:02

Here is OoB of Afghan Armed Forces in Sept. 1939:

http://niehorster.orbat.com/053_afghani ... _1939.html

Regards,
K

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Billy
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#4

Post by Billy » 27 Sep 2006, 04:03

I have since found out that the Afghan Army of that time period wore German M1916 helmets and apparantly the battle rifle was the Lee-Enfield No.1. Did they maybe use Lewis guns as the section light machine gun and Vickers ones for the medium machine guns? I don't know and regrettably have nothing more on which to base that other than suspicion because of them using Lee-Enfield rifles. No idea also about their uniforms or insignia.

Animal
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#5

Post by Animal » 30 Jul 2007, 06:24

I may be wrong, but I believe they wore British style uniforms. Not sure about the insignia though.

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#6

Post by Animal » 06 Aug 2007, 07:34

Afghanistan was cut off from British arms after the 1919 war, so the Afghans had to look to other sources of weapons. The 1947 Encyclopedia Britannica World Atlas shows the Afghan Army as using British, Russian(possibly supplied by the Tsar before WWI or taken from White troops and Uzbek Basmachis who fled into Afghanistan following the Russian Civil War), and German rifles and Italian mortars.

Here's a page on AFV's used by the Afghan Army- http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/afgh ... istan.html

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Oracle
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#7

Post by Oracle » 07 Aug 2007, 19:06

I have copies of British National Archives papers in my filing cabinet relating to the supply of US trucks, Chevrolets and Fords, from around 1935 onwards. By 1950 the Afghan Purchasing Commission in NYC were placing cash orders for hundreds of trucks, to be delivered CKD to Bombay and then assembled by GM India and Ford of India, and then driven into Afghanistan. There was concern at the time about German advisers in the country. The tying-up of essential US-owned assembly plants that would otherwise be used to produce trucks for the British and Indian Armies caused a lot of consternation. The US companies would not relent, and they has been paid for in cash. In the end the British agreed to take over the shipments and compensate the Afghans. It appears that trucks had a relatively short life because of the roads. There were clearly far too many though to be utilised officially for the building of new roads!

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#8

Post by Sean RR » 08 Oct 2007, 06:40

Hopefully here are some pictures I've done

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#9

Post by Sean RR » 08 Oct 2007, 06:41

Oops
Attachments
27 cav.GIF
27 cav.GIF (11.27 KiB) Viewed 2570 times
32 gdi.GIF
32 gdi.GIF (12.63 KiB) Viewed 2570 times
39 i.GIF
39 i.GIF (13.42 KiB) Viewed 2571 times

Animal
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#10

Post by Animal » 10 Oct 2007, 04:32

Did you do those? They're pretty good. I assume the cavalry tunic is of an older pattern than the infantry one? What about a plate showing an officer's uniform and/or one showing the insignia worn? Obviously info on Afghan uniforms and insignia of the period is pretty hard to come by.

Anyway, THANKS!!

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#11

Post by Sean RR » 10 Oct 2007, 07:19

Yeah, sorry there were no captions.
Top pic infantry 1939, next a Guardsman from 1932 and bottom a cavalry trooper 1927.
The next pic is an officer of the air force 1930
Attachments
30 af.GIF
30 af.GIF (9.63 KiB) Viewed 2538 times

Animal
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#12

Post by Animal » 12 Oct 2007, 02:51

The AIr Force uniform is obviously a full dress. Any info on what the front of those caps looked like? Or cap badges? Was that cap also worn in the field when the helmet wasn't in use or was there a side or overseas type cap? I'm assuming that Army officers also wore open jackets with lapels- that Army and Air Force both had the same cut of tunics and trousers, breeches? I had also assumed that dismounted enlisted men wore puttees rather than those leggings. Considering that Britain cut Afghanistan off from arms after 1919, where did they get the P-14 rifles?

Seanus
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Good questions

#13

Post by Seanus » 16 Oct 2007, 15:49

The illustrations are taken from contemporary photographs so the detail is as good as I can make it.
Your questions:
1. On the front of the cap was worn the national badge, as on the old flag but in metal.
2. I have seen a 1920s picture of a small floppy cap with a widish brim worn by cavalry troopers, and an upright conical cap with ear flaps and a front peak. Not sure about a service cap. I think there were a few on the British Pathe site if you search for Afghainstan.
3. The AF full dress seems to be distinctive. The Army officers I have seen of the same time wore service dress like the British. There is a dark blue full dress but it has a closed collar and numerous buttons. It was worn with a normal peaked cap, with a white cover usually.
4. Putties were the normal wear, this photo had gaiters which are shown on other photos as well.
5. Not sure about an arms embargo, the photos I have seen show troops armed with SMLE and P14 rifles, and Lewis LMGs. Suggests a pretty ineffectual embargo.

Seanus
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Good questions

#14

Post by Seanus » 16 Oct 2007, 15:49

The illustrations are taken from contemporary photographs so the detail is as good as I can make it.
Your questions:
1. On the front of the cap was worn the national badge, as on the old flag but in metal.
2. I have seen a 1920s picture of a small floppy cap with a widish brim worn by cavalry troopers, and an upright conical cap with ear flaps and a front peak. Not sure about a service cap. I think there were a few on the British Pathe site if you search for Afghainstan.
3. The AF full dress seems to be distinctive. The Army officers I have seen of the same time wore service dress like the British. There is a dark blue full dress but it has a closed collar and numerous buttons. It was worn with a normal peaked cap, with a white cover usually.
4. Putties were the normal wear, this photo had gaiters which are shown on other photos as well.
5. Not sure about an arms embargo, the photos I have seen show troops armed with SMLE and P14 rifles, and Lewis LMGs. Suggests a pretty ineffectual embargo.

Seanus
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Posts: 8
Joined: 15 Apr 2006, 08:16
Location: England

Good questions

#15

Post by Seanus » 16 Oct 2007, 15:49

The illustrations are taken from contemporary photographs so the detail is as good as I can make it.
Your questions:
1. On the front of the cap was worn the national badge, as on the old flag but in metal.
2. I have seen a 1920s picture of a small floppy cap with a widish brim worn by cavalry troopers, and an upright conical cap with ear flaps and a front peak. Not sure about a service cap. I think there were a few on the British Pathe site if you search for Afghainstan.
3. The AF full dress seems to be distinctive. The Army officers I have seen of the same time wore service dress like the British. There is a dark blue full dress but it has a closed collar and numerous buttons. It was worn with a normal peaked cap, with a white cover usually.
4. Putties were the normal wear, this photo had gaiters which are shown on other photos as well.
5. Not sure about an arms embargo, the photos I have seen show troops armed with SMLE and P14 rifles, and Lewis LMGs. Suggests a pretty ineffectual embargo.

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