Armored vehicles and tanks Lithuania between 1918 and 1940

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Sturm78
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Re: Armored vehicles and tanks Lithuania between 1918 and 19

#16

Post by Sturm78 » 12 May 2010, 14:31

Hi all,

Can anybody identify this Lithuanian AA MG. German 7.92mm MG08, british 7.62mm Vickers or other??

Sturm78
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Lthuanian army anti aircraft maxim machine gun..jpg
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Vanagas
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Re: Armored vehicles and tanks Lithuania between 1918 and 19

#17

Post by Vanagas » 16 May 2010, 19:17

It's German Maxim "MG-08"


Ñancul
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Re: Armored vehicles and tanks Lithuania between 1918 and 19

#18

Post by Ñancul » 08 Jun 2010, 01:03

Excellent photos and gentlemen, I'm from Argentina and I'm writing about cars and tanks in Lithuania from 1918 to 1940, I hope I can help.

SVaaka
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Re: Armored vehicles and tanks Lithuania between 1918 and 19

#19

Post by SVaaka » 10 Aug 2011, 09:12

The Lithuanian Army acquired 18 Vickers M1936/M1937, new to England. Half were armed with machine guns 7.92 mm Maxim and the other half with 37 mm cannons.

Never heard or seen one Lithuanian Vickers M1936/37 with 37mm cannon - I am 99,9% sure all were delivered with only mashinegun armament. Is is plain co-insedence that all photographed so documented examples were mashinegun armed? Not very likely.

eppanzer
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Re: Armored vehicles and tanks Lithuania between 1918 and 19

#20

Post by eppanzer » 10 Aug 2011, 10:43

SVaaka wrote:The Lithuanian Army acquired 18 Vickers M1936/M1937, new to England. Half were armed with machine guns 7.92 mm Maxim and the other half with 37 mm cannons.
Lithuania acquired 16 Vickers mod. 1933 and 16 Vickers mod. 1935 in fact. All were armed with 7,92 mm caliber machine guns. According to my last research, it looks like all MGs were Vickers made. Any way, the last 16 mod. 1935 tanks (from 3rd tanks company) with no doubts were armed with 7,92 mm caliber Vickers MGs.

eppanzer

eppanzer
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Re: Armored vehicles and tanks Lithuania between 1918 and 19

#21

Post by eppanzer » 10 Aug 2011, 10:57

Ñancul wrote:Vickers Light Tank Model 1936 (M1936/M1937) in war with Poland (1939)
The Lithuanian Army were not in war with Poland in the 1939. Vilnius, the old Lithuanian capital of the Lithuania, was re-taken, according to Treaty of the 1939 year with USSR. Vilnius and Vilnius region were occupied by Red Army, so were not combat actions against Poland Army. Altought Germany made an all levels pressing to Lithuania Government (even before war started), the Lithuania Army did not attack bravely fighting Poland from the open back, as the USSR did.

YAN
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Re: Armored vehicles and tanks Lithuania between 1918 and 19

#22

Post by YAN » 25 Aug 2011, 17:31

Thanks for the photos Eppanzer, I have this concerning Lithuanian troops,

Lithuanian Infantry Company 1940
Company H.Q.
1 x Co (pistol)
1 x 2IC (pistol)
1 x Company Sergeant Major (pistol)
2 x Orderly’s (rifles)

3 x Infantry Platoons each:
Platoon H.Q.
1 x Officer (Pistol)
1 x Platoon Sgt Major (Rifle)
1 x Orderly/Runner (Rifle)

3 x Rifle sections each:
1 x Corporal (Rifle)
1 x Lance Corporal (Rifle)
1 x LMG Team (1 x ZB-26 LMG + 1 x Gunner (pistol) 1 x Loader (rifle) 2 x Ammo carriers (rifles)
7 x Rifle men
1 x Rifle man with Grenade Launcher

I dont know how acurate it is, I used it for a wargame, struggling to find the same on Latvian and Estonia Infantry Companies from the same period.
Yan.

eppanzer
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Re: Armored vehicles and tanks Lithuania between 1918 and 19

#23

Post by eppanzer » 26 Aug 2011, 09:46

According to “Staffs Manual”, Army Staff, Press and Education Department, Kaunas, 1938

The Rifle Company (204 men): 4 officers, 200 NCO and privates, 25 pistols, 173 rifles, 9 LMGs, 9 horses, 2 wagons (towed by 1 horse), 2 wagons (towed by 2 horses), 1 field kitchen.
According to “Infantry Manual. Vol.2, The Battle”, 1939, Army Staff, Press and Education Department, Kaunas, 1939; and “Staffs Manual”, Army Staff, Press and Education Department, Kaunas, 1938

First of all Lithuanian Army Infantry units officially were: Infantry - Division, Brigade or Regiment, and Rifle - Battalion, Company, Platoon and Squad.
Commander: Pistol, horse
Support platoon:
Warrant officer (viršila): Pistol
- command squad (NCO for chemical defense, observers and orderlies)
- maintenance squad (ammunition team and medical team): 8 horses, 2 wagons (towed by 1 horse, for ammunition), 2 wagons (towed by 2 horses: 1 for ammunition, 1 for supply), 1 field kitchen.

3x rifle platoons, each:
Commander (usually – officer, but could be NCO too): pistol
Second in command (NCO) (būrininkas, literally – platooner): pistol
Command team: 4 men (observers and orderlies) 4 “Mauser” 24L

- 3x rifle squads, each: 14 men, 13 7,92 “Mauser” 24L, 1 ZB-26:
Commander (skyrininkas, literally – squader): “Mauser” 24L
Commander’s assistant: “Mauser” 24L
LMG group: 4 men, (possible 1 HP FN), 3 “Mauser” 24L, 1 ZB-26
Rifle group: 8 men, 8 “Mauser” 24L
According to “Infantry Manual. Vol.2, The Battle”, 1939:
- 1 (4th) x grenade launchers and marksmen squad: (10 men)
Commander: “Mauser” 24L
3 x rifle grenade launchers: 3 “Mauser” 24L, still no rifle grenade launchers in 1940
3 x rifle grenade launcher assistances: 3 “Mauser” 24L
3 x marksmen: 3 “Mauser” 24L (still w/o optical sights in 1940)

There were 3 oficial pistols in the Lithuania Army service:
9 mm (9x19 Para) Brauningas (Browning FN) for officers, NCOs and ranks;
9 mm (9x19 Para) Parabelis (Parabellum P.08) for officers, NCOs and ranks;
7,65 mm (7,65 Browning short) Mauzeris (Mauser 1910 or its later models) for officers and NCOs only.
The officers could have their own pistols what they did in the most cases. Most popular calibers were 6,35 and 7,65 mm Browning, various models, but most commons were Walther, Browning and Mauser.

The most common for Infantry was 9 mm Browning, for example 9th Inf. Rgt. had 475 Browning and only 7 Parabellum pistols on the 1st January, 1939.
Rifles: “Mauzeris” 24L (Mauser FN and vz. 24) and 98 m. (old German “98”, most of them re-worked with new Lithuanian made barrels).
LMGs: Brno 26 m. (ZB 26). Some had AA sights and devices for AA fire, 400 lightweight tripodes for infantry were bought.
08/15 m. (MG08/15) – but this one for AA use only and not in the Infantry units
HMGs: 08 m. (German MG.08, some re-worked).
Lithuania Army had no rifle grenades, but the trials were made until 1939, when decided to by or produce (later, in 1940) in Lithuania 47 mm grenade launchers. Production had not run until soviet occupation.

eppanzer
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Re: Armored vehicles and tanks Lithuania between 1918 and 19

#24

Post by eppanzer » 26 Aug 2011, 09:56

Sturm78 wrote:Hi all,
Can anybody identify this Lithuanian AA MG. German 7.92mm MG08, british 7.62mm Vickers or other??
As You can see the MG had some modifications for AA fire made by Lithuanian Army

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henryk
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Re: Armored vehicles and tanks Lithuania between 1918 and 19

#25

Post by henryk » 26 Aug 2011, 20:52

In September 1939, Polish units entered Lithuania and were interned. How much and what type of equipment did they bring in, if any? Did the Lithuanian Army make use of the equipment?

eppanzer
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Re: Armored vehicles and tanks Lithuania between 1918 and 19

#26

Post by eppanzer » 27 Aug 2011, 19:39

henryk wrote:In September 1939, Polish units entered Lithuania and were interned. How much and what type of equipment did they bring in, if any? Did the Lithuanian Army make use of the equipment?
Yes, a lot of armament had been taken from interned Polish troops. This is dr. G.Surgailis work:
http://www.lka.lt/EasyAdmin/sys/files/P ... bandau.pdf
Firearms were in very bad shape, most of the rifles and carbines were old and had rusty barrels. All together were taken only 27 pistols, about 6880 rifles and carbines and about 200 MGs.
Lithuanians did not search interned Polish officers and soldiers, just ask to give a firearms, so many of them kept a pistols and revolvers hidden. According to this the Polish embassy made a protest in the middle of the October, 1939, blaming the Lithuanian Army being not able to manage the interned Polish soldiers, because some Polish soldiers and officers were noticed seling their pistols for civilians. Almost all weapons were taken after this strange protest of the Polish embassy, but some pistols were hidden any way. For example, when captain Tadeusz Tomaszewski was taken to the Military hospital 2 hidden pistols (Mauser and FN) with ammo were found.
Rifles and carbines according to me (all guns are named like in the Lithuanian Army reports):
7.92 mm Mauser"98" rifles - 670
Mauser "98" carbines - 3276
German "88" rifles - 151
German 88/91 carbines - 15
French 86/93 rifles - 630
French rifles (different models) - 30
French rifles 07/15 and 16 - 453
French carbines (1892, 1890, 1916, 1907/15) - 363
Austrian rifles - 317
Austrian carbines - 662
Russian rifles and carbines - 15
Russian rifles (coverted to 7.92 mm) - 283
English rifles - 16
Dr. Surgailis have reported the same (except English rifles and 15 Russian rifles and carbines) and 208 machineguns.
I have found only 191 MGs: 121 LMGs and 70 HMGs. Actually, I have almost done with 2 works on artillery and firearms of the Lithuanian Army, so I would like to see the detailed list in my published works first :)

From artillery I can to prove for today only 5 75 mm field guns and 6 40 mm Bofors AA guns (1 damaged).

The Lithuanian Army had enough weapons for planned mobilisation, except mortars, field artillery guns and heavy MGs, so only 3 75 mm field guns, 9 81 mm mortars and few Maxim MG08 would be used in the Lithuanian Army if the mobilisation would start.
Of course were some plans (according to the article of E.Vaidotas (p. 214-248): http://www.lka.lt/EasyAdmin/sys/files/K ... rnetui.pdf) to create the 40 mm Bofors battery to defend the old Lithuanian capital Vilnius, but nothing had be done before soviet occupation in the 15th June, 1940.
Also a big quantity civilian personal cars and some military trucks and lorries were taken by Lithuania, some of them had been sent to the Air Defence Group. The AD group had these Polish vehicles on the 1st July, 1940:
2 motorcycles "Sokol"
6 Polski Fiat PF-508 command cars
3 Polski Fiat PF-508 light cars for AA MGs
2 radio cars on the Polski Fiat chassis
10 Polski-FiaT PF-621L lorries.

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henryk
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Re: Armored vehicles and tanks Lithuania between 1918 and 19

#27

Post by henryk » 27 Aug 2011, 21:01

Thank you, eppanzer, for your response. I understand that Lithuania treated the Polish internees even more civilly than Hungary did.

eppanzer
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Re: Armored vehicles and tanks Lithuania between 1918 and 19

#28

Post by eppanzer » 28 Aug 2011, 10:23

henryk wrote:Thank you, eppanzer, for your response. I understand that Lithuania treated the Polish internees even more civilly than Hungary did.
I hope so. Although the Poland was a bigger aggressive neighbour country for almost 19 years, the sympathy of the Lithuanians were out with Poland and Polish people. Lithuanians and Poles have long common history, common victory in the Zalgiris/Grunwald/Tannenberg battle in the 1410, when the lethal for both Poland and Lithuania expansion of the Teutonic Knights was stoped forever. Even more, the same old enemy, German, only half year ago annexed the Klaipeda city and Klaipeda district of the Lithuania. From the next side was the Soviet Union, which was a descendant of the other old enemy - tsarist Russia empire.

Lithuania was forced by nazzi to send internees back home to the part of Poland, occupied by Germany.
Lithuanian Government did not nothing to prevent escaping internees to the France. The Polish internees could have ... vacation even till 4th June, 1940. Then all internees were told to "finish" vacation and come back after soviet occupation (15th June, 1940), almost everybody had been escaped

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henryk
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Re: Armored vehicles and tanks Lithuania between 1918 and 19

#29

Post by henryk » 28 Aug 2011, 20:45


Arto O
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Re: Armored vehicles and tanks Lithuania between 1918 and 19

#30

Post by Arto O » 29 Aug 2011, 06:08

Hi,
Out of topic, but I take advantage to ask (I made already before in another topic without a result), can somebody tell if the national emble of Lithuania has some meaning, history etc, very visible on the vehicle in the 7th photo on the first page.
Thanks
Arto.

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